Calvinists can't stand when smart people don't agree with them.

[webdog]

Regarding the OP I must say that I am ever so grateful for His grace that made me a five point flaming calvinist! Who knows but that same thing may happen to you at some point, when you come to see our sovereign God as high, holy and lifted up and yourself as a little mud ball without any hope at all until He regenerates your heart and you fall humbly on your face before Him as Isaiah did when he saw Him! What joy filled my heart when I came to see the biblical truth of the doctrines of grace and now I pray for others to have the same reason to rejoice! You will then have no cause to criticise others but will only thank Him for having shown Himself to you clearly! Soli deo gloria!!

Your post also proves the op. Here's a news flash...what you experienced is the same thing I did! Can you believe that...calvinists aren't the only ones to believe that

your post hinted at only calvinists being true believers. I pray it was just the way it was presented and not what you believe.

 

[quantumfaith]

Regarding the OP I must say that I am ever so grateful for His grace that made me a five point flaming calvinist! Who knows but that same thing may happen to you at some point, when you come to see our sovereign God as high, holy and lifted up and yourself as a little mud ball without any hope at all until He regenerates your heart and you fall humbly on your face before Him as Isaiah did when he saw Him! What joy filled my heart when I came to see the biblical truth of the doctrines of grace and now I pray for others to have the same reason to rejoice! You will then have no cause to criticise others but will only thank Him for having shown Himself to you clearly! Soli deo gloria!!

McWilliams, what is it that makes you think that the non-cal does not see God in this same reverent, high and lifted up manner? Aren't we just as capable of such contrition and humility as well? This "implication" (apologies if it is not intended) is what "upsets" many.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

McWilliams, what is it that makes you think that the non-cal does not see God in this same reverent, high and lifted up manner? Aren't we just as capable of such contrition and humility as well? This "implication" (apologies if it is not intended) is what "upsets" many.

doesnt upset me in the least! LOL why are you being so Hyper sensitive? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[quantumfaith]

doesnt upset me in the least! LOL why are you being so Hyper sensitive? :smilewinkgrin:

Nothing in my response indicated such a perspective. However, regardless of how one feels about the OP, seems that the discussion is valid by such. My knickers are not in a knot, "knot" from this anyways. Now Knot Theory can do that to me.

 

[convicted1]

Regarding the OP I must say that I am ever so grateful for His grace that made me a five point flaming calvinist! Who knows but that same thing may happen to you at some point, when you come to see our sovereign God as high, holy and lifted up and yourself as a little mud ball without any hope at all until He regenerates your heart and you fall humbly on your face before Him as Isaiah did when he saw Him! What joy filled my heart when I came to see the biblical truth of the doctrines of grace and now I pray for others to have the same reason to rejoice! You will then have no cause to criticise others but will only thank Him for having shown Himself to you clearly! Soli deo gloria!!

I guess I could be the poster child for all in the non-cal camp, and I feel the exact same way, and the same thing happened to me as well. When God confronted me, showing me how vile I was, it crushed me. I began seeking after His grace, love, and mercy. He then saved me, an unworthy sinner, from my sins. I am anti-reformed, but I see God as high, holy, and lifted up, and me as a little mudball. So, what's your point?


Oh, btw, you just proved the OP's case.

 

[Skandelon]

Quantum, Willis, and WebDog,

Having been a Calvinist I will say that I understand where they are coming from. When you first come to adopt the Calvinistic views (which do tend to emphasize the Glory of God and inability of man), you do feel as if your view of God is heightened. When compared to the namby pamby, easy believism, Joel Olsteen type of Christianity, I admit, Calvinism provides some much needed answers to some very difficult passages. And the Calvinistic doctrines emphasis on God's glory is much needed in response to such views.

BUUUUT, with that said, it was only after I studied truly scholarly 'non-Calvinistic' authors (who also provided answers to the questions regarding difficult passages and STILL emphasized the glory of God in response to the 'namby pamby' doctrines out there) that I felt the 'height' of feeling about God's Glory while NOT compromising his Holiness either.

I began to see that God's power, abilities and true SOVEREIGNTY aren't preserved by His control of things, but his POWER OVER things. There is a difference.

If only Calvinists could understand that!

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum, Willis, and WebDog,

Having been a Calvinist I will say that I understand where they are coming from. When you first come to adopt the Calvinistic views (which do tend to emphasize the Glory of God and inability of man), you do feel as if your view of God is heightened. When compared to the namby pamby, easy believism, Joel Olsteen type of Christianity, I admit, Calvinism provides some much needed answers to some very difficult passages. And the Calvinistic doctrines emphasis on God's glory is much needed in response to such views.

BUUUUT, with that said, it was only after I studied truly scholarly 'non-Calvinistic' authors (who also provided answers to the questions regarding difficult passages and STILL emphasized the glory of God in response to the 'namby pamby' doctrines out there) that I felt the 'height' of feeling about God's Glory while NOT compromising his Holiness either.

[B]I began to see that God's power, abilities and true SOVEREIGNTY aren't preserved by His control of things, but his POWER OVER things. There is a difference. [/B]

If only Calvinists could understand that!

Precisely how I have "felt" for many years. I don't think, have never thought, that any side of the debate ever had a corner on the Sovereignty market. I think even my OT friends are capable of such a reverence for God's Sovereignty as well.

 

[convicted1]

Quantum, Willis, and WebDog,

Having been a Calvinist I will say that I understand where they are coming from. When you first come to adopt the Calvinistic views (which do tend to emphasize the Glory of God and inability of man), you do feel as if your view of God is heightened. When compared to the namby pamby, easy believism, Joel Olsteen type of Christianity, I admit, Calvinism provides some much needed answers to some very difficult passages. And the Calvinistic doctrines emphasis on God's glory is much needed in response to such views.

BUUUUT, with that said, it was only after I studied truly scholarly 'non-Calvinistic' authors (who also provided answers to the questions regarding difficult passages and STILL emphasized the glory of God in response to the 'namby pamby' doctrines out there) that I felt the 'height' of feeling about God's Glory while NOT compromising his Holiness either.

I began to see that God's power, abilities and true SOVEREIGNTY aren't preserved by His control of things, but his POWER OVER things. There is a difference.

If only Calvinists could understand that!

Well, my view of God has Him being omnipotent, omniscience, sovereign, the Rock that is higher than I, pristine, immacculate, sinless, perfect, holy, exhalted, etc. He showed me how vile I was, and it crushed me, and caused me to repent and seek after Him. I knew nothing about the likes of John Calvin(I had heard of him, but nothing in great detail about who he really was other than one of the fathers of the reformed theology), Martin Luther, AW Tozer and Pink, Adam Clarke, John MacArthur, Beza, Bunyan, Gill, etc. All I knew was that I was a sinner in need of a Saviour. I sought after Him, after His mercy, grace, and love. I knew that w/o Him, I was a "goner".

Guess what? He saved me anyways, and I wasn't a reformed person at that time, and I am still not a reformed person. God doesn't save reformed people, neither does He save the non-reformed. He saves sinners from their sins, period.

 

[McWilliams]

I'm happy with what He has shown me and you're happy with what He has shown you so now we are all rejoicing and eager to share His gospel every day with family, friends and co-workers, right?
I had no intent to insinuate arminians are not believers as I have known many that are definitely believers and their lives bear fruit consistently that they are His family!
I do know that if one is a true believer they dont find fault with others but telling the truth in love they encourage and edify those who are believers and yet are different from their own beliefs. It is important for each of us to examine ourself to be sure we're in the faith for there are many who claim to be believers that are not! When He comes in that day it will be seen.

 

[convicted1]

I'm happy with what He has shown me and you're happy with what He has shown you so now we are all rejoicing and eager to share His gospel every day with family, friends and co-workers, right?
I had no intent to insinuate arminians are not believers as I have known many that are definitely believers and their lives bear fruit consistently that they are His family!
I do know that if one is a true believer they dont find fault with others but telling the truth in love they encourage and edify those who are believers and yet are different from their own beliefs. It is important for each of us to examine ourself to be sure we're in the faith for there are many who claim to be believers that are not! When He comes in that day it will be seen.

It was nothing against you, but it was the way that your post came across. You stated you came to see the biblical truth of the doctrines of grace. I do not see the doctrines of grace as you do, so then by implication, I would be believing a lie? See what I mean?

 

[OldRegular]

I guess I could be the poster child for all in the non-cal camp, and I feel the exact same way, and the same thing happened to me as well. When God confronted me, showing me how vile I was, it crushed me. I began seeking after His grace, love, and mercy. He then saved me, an unworthy sinner, from my sins. I am anti-reformed, but I see God as high, holy, and lifted up, and me as a little mudball. So, what's your point?


Oh, btw, you just proved the OP's case.

You are not as anti-reformed as you think. I can tell you that the Old Regular Baptists see an experience of Grace [Salvation] far far different than the vast majority of Southern Baptists.

While I have your attention why did you close your thread "Five Questions"?

 

[convicted1]

You are not as anti-reformed as you think. I can tell you that the Old Regular Baptists see an experience of Grace [Salvation] far far different than the vast majority of Southern Baptists.

While I have your attention why did you close your thread "Five Questions"?

I didn't close it. Can someone outside of Mods/Admins close a thread? I honestly didn't close it.


As for your post, I have been to one church that is SBC, it is Allen Baptist chuch in Allen, Ky(a friend of mine I worked with at that time, was getting baptized, and wanted me to come). When I walked in, they gave my wife and I a program of how things are going to go. This is nothing like I am accustomed to. I go to churches where we "shoot from the hip", so-to-speak. I am not slamming those on here who do this, it's just I am not accustomed to it myself.

I guess the major difference(s) I have with reformed theology is the pre-faith regeneration, and God predestinating some to hell. I just don't see it that way, when I read. Maybe in time, I will see it, but right now, I don't. I have nothing against my reformed Brethern, just their doctrine.

 

[McWilliams]

It was amazing to me that I came to the doctrines of grace after I'd retired. I was the daughter of an Assembly of God pastor and for many years an arminian. I thought I was a believer then and perhaps I was but the perspective I gained in late life was far superior to what I'd grown up with. I love reading the puritans and their lives are such a godly example of piety and total devotion to Christ. Many people today are so influenced by the culture and find it difficult to separate themselves from that to focus on Christ in all they say and do! I dont blame anyone at all for not believing like I do but give all glory and gratitude to Him who showed me His sovereignty and providence! There is not one small atom in this universe that is not in His control. I came to see the truth of this in studying the old testament and seeing all the many ways He controlled even the tiny details of history! Soli deo gloria!!

 

[asterisktom]

It was amazing to me that I came to the doctrines of grace after I'd retired. I was the daughter of an Assembly of God pastor and for many years an arminian. I thought I was a believer then and perhaps I was but the perspective I gained in late life was far superior to what I'd grown up with. I love reading the puritans and their lives are such a godly example of piety and total devotion to Christ. Many people today are so influenced by the culture and find it difficult to separate themselves from that to focus on Christ in all they say and do! I dont blame anyone at all for not believing like I do but give all glory and gratitude to Him who showed me His sovereignty and providence! There is not one small atom in this universe that is not in His control. I came to see the truth of this in studying the old testament and seeing all the many ways He controlled even the tiny details of history! Soli deo gloria!!

Glad to read this. God's ordaining events of history is a good, good thing.

Shortly after I became Reformed (though I don't really like the term) I wrote this in my Xanga: "I rejoice in my Savior and in all the riches of His grace. Unmerited, unlooked-for, unexpected...Hallelujah!" It was somewhat like being born again ... again.

I still remember when I first became Reformed. Many, many parts of the Bible shifted for me. Much of it came alive in a way that it had not done before. Like you, I was an arminian for years (though I wouldn't have known the term) and argued against much of these very facets of belief that I now cherish in a new way (election, grace, all of the 5 sola's). Before I used to say, along with Hank Hanegraaf, that "election is an in-house debate". But that is not how Paul treated it. Several times he underscored it, making it foundational to several of his in-depth expositions of salvation.

The only problem I have with my new belief is the lack of a good, concise name for it (at least from my perspective). "Reformed" and "Calvinist" both denote beliefs that I don't follow (infant baptism, Covenant of works, Sabbath observance, etc.). "Doctrines of Grace' is better, but it too has problems, being both vague and more divisive than precise. But that is just me.

 

[humblethinker]

There is not one small atom in this universe that is not in His control.

'Control': what do you mean?

 

[humblethinker]

The only problem I have with my new belief is the lack of a good, concise name for it (at least from my perspective).

How about 'Determinist'?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Tom, All of what you & McWilliams said ring true to me but please remember as Christians that the foundation of the free offering of the gospel is not election ....it is in Christ who promises to save all who come to Him in faith. Therefore we preach Jesus Christ crucified & we preach Him to you. That is our charge....can I get an amen? :wavey:

 

[McWilliams]

Absolutely! Christ came to save sinners, just as He said and does. That said we know there are some who refuse and some who are thrilled to be humble before Him! How did that happen? It was by His design. The heart that He regenerated came to hunger for Him and for His word. The other one did not.
The first trigger verse that told me I had much yet to learn was Acts 13:48b It declares that 'all who were ordained to eternal life believed'.
In eternity past God decreed all that would come to pass and when you read through the OT it becomes very clear that He controlled and designed all events, all details. Soli deo gloria!

 

[Iconoclast]

It was amazing to me that I came to the doctrines of grace after I'd retired. I was the daughter of an Assembly of God pastor and for many years an arminian. I thought I was a believer then and perhaps I was but the perspective I gained in late life was far superior to what I'd grown up with. I love reading the puritans and their lives are such a godly example of piety and total devotion to Christ. Many people today are so influenced by the culture and find it difficult to separate themselves from that to focus on Christ in all they say and do! I dont blame anyone at all for not believing like I do but give all glory and gratitude to Him who showed me His sovereignty and providence! There is not one small atom in this universe that is not in His control. I came to see the truth of this in studying the old testament and seeing all the many ways He controlled even the tiny details of history! Soli deo gloria!!

Welcome to the BB,

This happens to so many people, but it a great comfort to know and trust in God's absolute control.The ot is a gold mine of such things....
http://books.google.com/books?id=wP...n flavel mystery of providence online&f=false

 

[asterisktom]

Tom, All of what you & McWilliams said ring true to me but please remember as Christians that the foundation of the free offering of the gospel is not election ....it is in Christ who promises to save all who come to Him in faith. Therefore we preach Jesus Christ crucified & we preach Him to you. That is our charge....can I get an amen? :wavey:

Yes, sure. I do know that the issue of election is so easily misconstrued. Certainly, whenever I have preached or taught - or even just witnessed - I don't bring up election. For that very reason. I present Christ and the wonderful Gospel, letting God draw as He sees fit.

Amen. :wavey: