Calvinists can't stand when smart people don't agree with them.

[Iconoclast]

Funny you say that because the determinist would suggest that God is just as in control of Satan's doings as His own. Another great example of Calvinist's attempt to subvert any actual level of creaturely freedom, smart or otherwise. Thanks for the reminder!:thumbsup:

You sound as if you would rather God....stop being God...and just be as man

 

[Iconoclast]

And Chesterton is out in the same left-field as CS Lewis in this regard. Lewis, also, posited that many heathen throughout the world are saved outside of Christ. This can be found in Mere Christianity and, as I recall, one or two places elsewhere.

So - not speaking for others here - this is why I rarely read Lewis anymore. First, I would have to take my shoes off to count all the books or articles I had read from this man I once greatly admired. Secondly, once his theological bent (and it truly was bent) became obvious I stayed away from him. There are too many good authors to read to be wasting time on someone who was unclear on what should be basic Christianity - the uniqueness of salvation in Christ.

EXACTLY!....when these men write such nonsense they are no longer trusted guides:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

Sorry, but IMHO, Calvinism IS a lie! A VERY serious FALSE doctrine. Believing God predestined some people for Hell IS from Satan. That's all I'm going to say on this thread.

Because you do not understand it,and cannot actual deal with it....does not make it false...it just shows your understanding to be defective:thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

Ask Iconoclast. He knows me in my role as a moderator on another board. I have little patience for Calvinists and neo-Calvinists who use strawman arguments or who posit ridiculous ideas. Serious scholarship includes policing one's own.

:thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:....Yes...this is true!!!

 

[Benjamin]

Ask Iconoclast. He knows me in my role as a moderator on another board. I have little patience for Calvinists and neo-Calvinists who use strawman arguments or who posit ridiculous ideas. Serious scholarship includes policing one's own.

You're using "Iconoclast" for a reference on these issues?! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

With the way Calvinists are being slimed in this Forum, and this thread in particular, I am glad I am not a Calvinist.

Calvin believed in infant baptism, I don't! He rejected immersion as the proper mode of Baptism, I don't. He had a view of the Lord's Supper different than mine. If I were a Calvinist I would unite with a church of the PCA.

However, Calvin did believe the Doctrine of Grace, so did the Apostle Paul, so did Augustine, so did Keach, Bunyon, Gill, Spurgeon, Fuller. LeLand, Judson, Wayland, Dagg, Mell, Carroll, Boyce, Broadus, Manly Sr., Manly Jr., all the old Baptist Saints; then there are Strong, Conner, Mullins, Reisinger, Mohler, a few on this Forum I could name, and then there is me. Why do I believe the Doctrine of Grace? Because "the Bible Tells Me So"!:godisgood::love2::jesus::love2:

And the old General Baptist Saints -- you know, the original, first Baptists -- believed the "Doctrines of Grace", too, just not the Calvinist doctrines of grace, and the earliest churches and Christians didn't believe this like the Calvinists do, either.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

And Chesterton is out in the same left-field as CS Lewis in this regard. Lewis, also, posited that many heathen throughout the world are saved outside of Christ. This can be found in Mere Christianity and, as I recall, one or two places elsewhere.

So - not speaking for others here - this is why I rarely read Lewis anymore. First, I would have to take my shoes off to count all the books or articles I had read from this man I once greatly admired. Secondly, once his theological bent (and it truly was bent) became obvious I stayed away from him. There are too many good authors to read to be wasting time on someone who was unclear on what should be basic Christianity - the uniqueness of salvation in Christ.

So those who never heard of Christ will be fried forever by God. "Interesting" take you have there on God's character.

 

[asterisktom]

So those who never heard of Christ will be fried forever by God. "Interesting" take you have there on God's character.

That speed-reading course not working out for you, eh? You certainly flubbed my post.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

That speed-reading course not working out for you, eh? You certainly flubbed my post.

On the contrary, I understood your post quite well.

 

[glazer1972]

Why do you suppose God would withhold this Calvinistic 'truth' from some of his Children and not others?

(NKJV)Hebrews 5:12-14
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. [13] For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. [14] But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

[quantumfaith]

(NKJV)Hebrews 5:12-14
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. [13] For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. [14] But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Help me understand how the proposal of an honest question (which you did not address) necessarily implies an obvious level of spiritual immaturity. In fact, the very asking of the question seems to underscore the opposite.

11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.

Seems to me the search for answers, some of which will never be known to us with certainty, despite the elegant and systematically structured rhetoric used by all of us at times, at the very least hints at the attempt to grow and develop spiritually and intellectually.

 

[Skandelon]

You sound as if you would rather God....stop being God...and just be as man

No, if you read what I wrote you would see that I would rather not see God works being equated with Satan's by the insistence that both are equally ordained/controlled/predetermined by God.

Let God be God and HIS ENEMIES be shattered, but don't try to make God into both Himself and His enemy by using semantics to argue how he uses second causes to determine everything that happens. The idea of God playing both sides of the chess board is such a small view of our infinitely great and HOLY God.

 

[OldRegular]

And the old General Baptist Saints -- you know, the original, first Baptists -- believed the "Doctrines of Grace", too, just not the Calvinist doctrines of grace, and the earliest churches and Christians didn't believe this like the Calvinists do, either.

Glad you can speak for the Calvinists, I can't. I suspect that the earliest churches believed what they were taught by such as John, Paul, Peter, James, and so on. Exactly what they teach us!

 

[mont974x4]

"Calvinists can't stand when smart people don't agree with them."

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. I have met no Arminians that truly fear God, choosing instead the man-centered doctrines that deny God's sovereign grace. Therefore, those who reject the tenets of Calvinism are not all that smart. They may be highly educated, but that is another matter. What I "can't stand" is the perversion of God's Word that places the brunt of the salvation act on men.

 

[Iconoclast]

You're using "Iconoclast" for a reference on these issues?!:

Don't worry Benjamin....he will use you as a reference for smug unscriptural comments, and useless carnal reasoning...if he needs a reference on excessive hubris and someone full of themselves.....:applause::thumbs::applause::laugh:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Mont97 posted...

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. I have met no Arminians that truly fear God, choosing instead the man-centered doctrines that deny God's sovereign grace.

The ignorance displayed in that statement stuns the mind.

Therefore, those who reject the tenets of Calvinism are not all that smart.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

They may be highly educated, but that is another matter. What I "can't stand" is the perversion of God's Word that places the brunt of the salvation act on men.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Competely clueless.

Very very sad.

 

[quantumfaith]

]

"Calvinists can't stand when smart people don't agree with them."

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. I have met no Arminians that truly fear God, choosing instead the man-centered doctrines that deny God's sovereign grace. Therefore, those who reject the tenets of Calvinism are not all that smart. They may be highly educated, but that is another matter. What I "can't stand" is the perversion of God's Word that places the brunt of the salvation act on men.

There has not been nor is there now, ANYONE around here who places the "brunt" of salvation on the shoulders of man, some of us, yes are convinced that man has a part in the equation, but no one has ever implied that man has the "brunt", i.e. that he is capable within himself to effect his own salvation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Don't worry Benjamin....he will use you as a reference for smug unscriptural comments, and useless carnal reasoning...if he needs a reference on excessive hubris and someone full of themselves.....:applause::thumbs::applause::laugh:

My brother are you not tired of this back and forth by now

 

[Amy.G]

My brother are you not tired of this back and forth by now

I know I sure am. The BB is not a good place anymore.

But I can say that God has used it to help me learn and for that I'm grateful. It's just time to go now.

 

[Winman]

"Calvinists can't stand when smart people don't agree with them."

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. I have met no Arminians that truly fear God, choosing instead the man-centered doctrines that deny God's sovereign grace. Therefore, those who reject the tenets of Calvinism are not all that smart. They may be highly educated, but that is another matter. What I "can't stand" is the perversion of God's Word that places the brunt of the salvation act on men.

Do you have a job? How did you get your job? You had to go in and fill out an application didn't you? You had to apply for it. But that alone did not secure your job for you did it? No, you may have applied for the job, but the sole power of hiring you was in possession of the employer. The employer alone decides whom he will hire.

Likewise, God is the one who saves you, only God has the power to regenerate you, but you must apply for it through faith. You have to come to Jesus or Jesus will not save you.

Jhn 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

God made the rules. You have to come to Jesus in faith to have life, just as you must fill out an application to get a job. But only God has the power to save you, just as only the employer has the power to hire you. You can't just walk in and start working, they will call the police and have you removed. And you can't work your way into heaven, you have to come by the rule God set, which is faith. The only thing is, God has promised to save all that come in faith in Jesus.

This is an analogy, and all analogies fail, but do you see who is in charge? Just because you apply for a job does not give you power or make you in charge, the employer ALWAYS determines whom he will hire.

As far as the OP, I do not think it fair to Calvinists, plenty of Calvinists are obviously very intelligent people, and Arminians or non-Cals often resent this.

I don't care either way, I don't put that much stock in theologians, they are men just like anyone else. Even intelligent men can be wrong, many intelligent men believe we came to exist through evolution, I believe that is total error. And many very simple people believe the scriptures that we were created by God. Having a PhD behind your name does not necessarily make you correct