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Calvin's Institutes
- Thread starter Rhetorician
- Start date
Brother Bob
New Member
I am guessing you have never read anything by Billy Graham and other famous free willers? Don't get too high and mighty. Tell me...would you ever consider agreeing with Christians inasmuch as they agree with Scripture? Don't be silly and stop slandering those of us who believe in the Biblical doctrines of grace and election.
Just a thought!
Joseph Botwinick
Speak for yourself about being high and mighty and NO! I have not read any of Billy Graham's writings, so you missed that one.
I am not slandering anyone. You call yourself Calvinists and if that is slander you made the bed so lie in it. As a matter of fact I hadn't read any of Calvinist writings until I came on BB and saw how so many of you follow after him and call yourselves Calvinists instead of Christians.
If I need your advice on how to act I will ask for it! Just a thought.
If we are not Calvinists then you all consider us the enemy, if you had from the beginning treated us like brothers in Christ then maybe there would not of been so much friction. I never knew what a Calvinist was until I came on here. I did know all about the predestinated brethren for we split from them but still did not know about the Calvinist movement. Just a little info for you.
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I have my own opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel if we do not preach justification by faith without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing unchangeable eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross. (Charles Spurgeon, The New Park Street Pulpit, Vol. 1, 1856).
... and I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, ‘If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright.’ It may seem a harsh sentiment; but he who in his soul believes that man does of his own free will turn to God, cannot have been taught of God, for that is one of the first principles taught us when God begins with us, that we have neither will nor power, but that He gives both; that he is ‘Alpha and Omega’ in the salvation of men. (C.H. Spurgeon from the sermon "Free Will A Slave", 1855).
You must first deny the authenticity and full inspiration of the Holy Scripture before you can legitimately and truly deny election. (Charles Spurgeon, Sermons, Vol. 3, p.130).
... and I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, ‘If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright.’ It may seem a harsh sentiment; but he who in his soul believes that man does of his own free will turn to God, cannot have been taught of God, for that is one of the first principles taught us when God begins with us, that we have neither will nor power, but that He gives both; that he is ‘Alpha and Omega’ in the salvation of men. (C.H. Spurgeon from the sermon "Free Will A Slave", 1855).
You must first deny the authenticity and full inspiration of the Holy Scripture before you can legitimately and truly deny election. (Charles Spurgeon, Sermons, Vol. 3, p.130).
Brother Bob
New Member
I think it may be blasphemy to equate John Calvin with Jesus Christ.
I don't think that was the point, my dear brother.Brother Bob said:I think it may be blasphemy to equate John Calvin with Jesus Christ.
Brother Bob
New Member
Did you happen to read this post?
Calvinism is the gospel! and then wonder why I said that?
Why is it off topic. You are in support of the Institutes and I am not. We have to give our reasons for our belief. I don't know any other way to debate unless you expect me to uphold the institutes. I do agree with some of them such as OGAG and others but where man can't do nothing I just can't accept that for God made man subject to vainty, not willingly but by reason of Him who subjected the same in Hope. So, we see where he made him where he could choose good or evil and even if he did evil he could be redeemed by the Hope and do good.
Calvinism is the gospel! and then wonder why I said that?
Why is it off topic. You are in support of the Institutes and I am not. We have to give our reasons for our belief. I don't know any other way to debate unless you expect me to uphold the institutes. I do agree with some of them such as OGAG and others but where man can't do nothing I just can't accept that for God made man subject to vainty, not willingly but by reason of Him who subjected the same in Hope. So, we see where he made him where he could choose good or evil and even if he did evil he could be redeemed by the Hope and do good.
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Prov. 26:5 in action . . .
Brother Bob asked:
What does "being a Calvinist" mean?
Money, power, and girls.
Does it mean John Calvin takes the place of Jesus?
And how!
Does it mean that his "institutes" take the place of the Bible?
Why read the Bible when John Calvin does such a great job of explaining it for us?
Why would anyone want to call themselves a "Calvinist" instead of a "Christian"?
Because it puts us closer to the front of the phone book.
How is the life of John Calvin compared to the life of Jesus?
Not quite twice as long. Plus, Jesus didn't speak French.
If John Calvin was alive today and ruling the way he did by destroying those that didn't believe as he did would you follow him now?
You mean, would I want to be with the winning team? Of course.
Brother Bob asked:
What does "being a Calvinist" mean?
Money, power, and girls.
Does it mean John Calvin takes the place of Jesus?
And how!
Does it mean that his "institutes" take the place of the Bible?
Why read the Bible when John Calvin does such a great job of explaining it for us?
Why would anyone want to call themselves a "Calvinist" instead of a "Christian"?
Because it puts us closer to the front of the phone book.
How is the life of John Calvin compared to the life of Jesus?
Not quite twice as long. Plus, Jesus didn't speak French.
If John Calvin was alive today and ruling the way he did by destroying those that didn't believe as he did would you follow him now?
You mean, would I want to be with the winning team? Of course.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
my apologies. This conversation and lack of Christian grace has really got to me. I am leaving the conversation until the other side can stop slandering me personally and Calvinists in general.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph Botwinick
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Brother Bob
New Member
Ok, I accept
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Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
You're right. I apologize for putting it in such a harsh manner. I am finished here. Continue with your slander. You win.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
Oh, then are you saying you meant it just said it too harsh?
Brother Bob
New Member
Have a good evening brother!
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Brother Bob
New Member
triple post
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Brother Bob
New Member
double post
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Jarthur001
Active Member
Joe,Joseph_Botwinick said:You're right. I apologize for putting it in such a harsh manner. I am finished here. Continue with your slander. You win.
Joseph Botwinick
Hold your head high brother. You stand for the gospel as found in the Bible. Though I know at times we all want to give-up. We must not!! We cannot be the age that gives up. We stand with Paul, Peter and John as we hold the Bible high and will take any pie in the face that comes our way. Joe, we need you on the lines. You give good insight in a soft voice. Others may hate your words, but you follow the truth. This only means they hate to hear that they are wrong. They are wrong for they follow mans logic, not because of what you said. Don't give in to those that wish to keep you quit. This is the goal of them that hate the truth.
We, have been burned at the stake, heads removed and placed in cold jails. They burn our Bibles, make up lies and do anything to keep the gospel from being proclaimed. RECANT they cry!! We cannot recant!!! We must not recant. We stand only as a light in this dark world.
We say that God is sovereign not only in general, but especially in salvation and this is what the world needs to hear. We place man-centered worship in its right place, of mans daydreams of logic with little room for God. Faith based on feelings, is free will based faith. Faith based on Bible is for the doctrines of grace. We preach God-centered worship of God not man. And this must never change. We can never give up. We can never give up. We can never give in to those that would have our heads, or quit our words, or change our gospel.
We press on!!
Brother Bob
New Member
Why take credit for something you know you didn't do? When did we make up lies and burn Bibles and such evil things of the devil. You still have your head. You are telling false James and should be ashamed of yourself. It is we that defend the name of Christ, amenWe, have been burned at the stake, heads removed and placed in cold jails. They burn our Bibles, make up lies and do anything to keep the gospel from being proclaimed. RECANT they cry!! We cannot recant!!! We must not recant. We stand only as a light in this dark world.
Also, the Gospel is the power of God and it belongs to Him. It is not your Gospel. You may have one though but the Lord said not to accept those that bring another Gospel.
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It is we that defend the name of Christ, amen
Umm. no you have been defending freewill and refusing to even discuss the doctrines of grace.
Brother Bob
New Member
Least we not going around telling false.