can A baptist Believe In Theistic Evolution?

[Gabriel Elijah]

While this is true, we must also consider the fact that even in Peter, the day was the same as in Genesis.... evening and morning.

I believe Peter was trying to convey to the reader that 1000 days really meant nothing to the Lord as far as time goes, but 'day' always meant something to man.

That said, I do not believe OE can honestly say day meant millions of years in the creation. It may have had the same meaning to God since He works outside of time, but to man, I believe it meant the same then as it does now.

For instance, Peter said a day is as a thousand years to the Lord. Now, does that mean that if I say I am going to the mailbox today, I mean it may take me a thousand years? Of course not.

I believe when Moses recorded that the earth was created in six days, he meant 6 literal days. Genesis reveals they knew what weeks, months and years were, so why not days too? Hebrew calendars reveal days on them, as I recall.

Steadfast—well I could play devil’s advocate & act like I somehow support TE & debate you—but I just cant bring myself to do it—b/c I don’t endorse it & I do agree with you—but I would recommend reading Wayne Grudem’s chapter on the issue in his Systematic Theology. He is a literal 6 day creationist, but after reading his chapter I personally had much more respect for other possible alternatives. There is also a good chapter in Understanding Christian Theology, by Robert Pyne who is also a literal 6 day creationist---but admits the issue is not a clear cut as many try to make it.

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

2 Pet 3:8-(ie with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day)

One day with the Lord is AS a thousand years...AS one day.

This is a figure of speech, two similes put together to show that time does not exist with God. God is eternal and exists outside of time. God doesn't change over time. This verse has nothing to do with creation or Genesis one. To try to use to justify any length of time or duration of day in Genesis one is taking this verse out of context and destroying the meaning of it. Let's use proper hermeneutics here and "rightly divide the word of truth."

DHK—I think you missed my point---I was getting at how God is not limited to time—& since God was only present at the creation—we really cant know for certain what time scale He was working on. (Although as I’ve already said—I think the number connection to Yom favors a 24-hour day)

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

DHK

When the word "yom" is used with a numeral, as it is above (6th day), it always refers to a 24 hour day. That much is true.

If proper hermeneutics is desired-- you might want to rethink that statement. Is it most commonly refer to a 24 hour day with numeral—yes—Does it 100% always refer to 24 hour day with numeral---no! But I think I’m about to drop out of this debate b/c I tend to be arguing more with the people who I actually agree with—lol—remember I am a literal 6 day creationist!

 

[Steadfast Fred]

When one reads the Book of Genesis, one must remember that while it is called the Book of Beginnings and thus a book of history, one must also remember that the author of the book (Moses) did not exist at the time of creation. Moses was not born until more than 2400 years after the earth was created.

Moses would have written the book in such a way that employed the language of his era. So the question would be, what did the people of Moses' day understand the word 'yom' to mean?

In all of Moses' writings, does he at all indicate that the word 'yom' is used differently when speaking of time frames? I cannot find such a time when he indicates that 'yom' is used to denote something other than a day.

That said, one would have to go back to the argument that if 'yom' in Genesis 1:5ff means millions of years, then it must also be millions of years in Genesis 21 and in Deuteronomy 27:11 and in other instances throughout the Pentateuch.

 

[quantumfaith]

Yes, clearly you should because Baptists are a creedal people...

Here let me help:

Will you assert that you believe in believers' baptism following conversion?
Will you assert that you believe in the priesthood of all believers?
Will you assert that you believe in local church autonomy?
Will you assert that you believe in the authority of the Bible?
Will you assert that you believe in two ordinances?
Will you assert that you believe in eternal security?
Will you assert that you believe in God, the Father Almighty -- Creator of Heaven and Earth?
Will you assert that you believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son our Lord?
Will you assert that you believe in the Holy Ghost and the Holy Church?
Quantum Faith do you renounce Satan?
And all his works?
And all his pomps?
Quantum Faith have you been baptized?

...uh got a little confused there at the end...nevertheless...maybe this will help out :saint:

preachinjesus, I am confessional not creedal. (At least with respect to the distinctions in the following article).

http://www.baptiststandard.com/2000/6_26/pages/confessions.html

 

[quantumfaith]

Yes, clearly you should because Baptists are a creedal people...

Here let me help:

Will you assert that you believe in believers' baptism following conversion?
Will you assert that you believe in the priesthood of all believers?
Will you assert that you believe in local church autonomy?
Will you assert that you believe in the authority of the Bible?
Will you assert that you believe in two ordinances?
Will you assert that you believe in eternal security?
Will you assert that you believe in God, the Father Almighty -- Creator of Heaven and Earth?
Will you assert that you believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son our Lord?
Will you assert that you believe in the Holy Ghost and the Holy Church?
Quantum Faith do you renounce Satan?
And all his works?
And all his pomps?
Quantum Faith have you been baptized?

...uh got a little confused there at the end...nevertheless...maybe this will help out :saint:

FTR: Yes to all.

 

[preachinjesus]

Then I shall call Quantum "Corleone" Faith...

btw, that whole post was supposed to be ironic because we all know Baptists are confessional and not creedal. Perhaps my vocal inflection didn't carry through my keyboard.

 

[matt wade]

FTR: Yes to all.

It doesn't matter if you answer yes to all that or not. You aren't a Baptist. The forum rules clearly state that you can't post in these forums. I thought I was carrying on a debate with a Baptist, had I knows you were non-denom I wouldn't have wasted my time.

 

[quantumfaith]

It doesn't matter if you answer yes to all that or not. You aren't a Baptist. The forum rules clearly state that you can't post in these forums. I thought I was carrying on a debate with a Baptist, had I knows you were non-denom I wouldn't have wasted my time.

Please, dont waste any more of your precious time.

 

[quantumfaith]

Then I shall call Quantum "Corleone" Faith...

btw, that whole post was supposed to be ironic because we all know Baptists are confessional and not creedal. Perhaps my vocal inflection didn't carry through my keyboard.

Unless it is also a "waste of your time", you will have to help me out "Corleone Faith" ???

 

[historyb]

Thank you historyb for being more mature intellectually and otherwise. Seems as if some simply cannot handle things well when someone sees things differently.

I have been reading the article and I do believe I am getting closer to the TE paradigm, perhaps it is the way I view Scripture as not being written to us directly but for us. I changed to partial Preterism because I came to that realization and I suspect that I will come to TE much the same way.

I think it's easy to forget the initial audience when reading Scriptures and we just assume a lot, we assume because it says something in English that it is literal but different cultures at different times understand things differently

 

[DHK]

It doesn't matter if you answer yes to all that or not. You aren't a Baptist. The forum rules clearly state that you can't post in these forums. I thought I was carrying on a debate with a Baptist, had I knows you were non-denom I wouldn't have wasted my time.

Matt, You are not the one to make that judgment call. Quantum's profile clearly states that his denomination is Baptist. Why the witch hunt? Lay this matter to rest please.

 

[InTheLight]

Why Matt do you feel the need to be so "sarcastically accusatorial" toward another believer? There has been absolutely NO statements by myself or anyone else in anyway denying "miracles" recorded in scripture. Yet you want to be "accusatorial" toward someone who holds a differnet position than you. You sound almost like you want to be a bully in the sandbox. Have at it Matt, enjoy your time in sandbox.

Originally Posted by matt wade
It doesn't matter if you answer yes to all that or not. You aren't a Baptist. The forum rules clearly state that you can't post in these forums. I thought I was carrying on a debate with a Baptist, had I knows you were non-denom I wouldn't have wasted my time.

Please, dont waste any more of your precious time.

Quantum, the Ignore feature is a good tool. You have the technology, use it.

 

[DHK]

Please folks, just address the OP from here on in, or I will be forced to close this thread.

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum, the Ignore feature is a good tool. You have the technology, use it.

Not familiar with the ignore function, will try to find it and put it to use. Thank you.

 

[MB]

Belief that GOD created the Universe, but used evolution to shape and influence life upon the earth?

It would seem to me that anyone can believe a whole bunch of things. being a baptist has little to do with it. Now if that baptist is truly saved and believes what the Bible says. They most likely wouldn't even consider it
MB

 

[Deacon]

In all of Moses' writings, does he at all indicate that the word 'yom' is used differently when speaking of time frames? I cannot find such a time when he indicates that 'yom' is used to denote something other than a day.

For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night.
Psalm 90:4 (ESV)

Rob

 

[DHK]

For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night.
Psalm 90:4 (ESV)

Rob

One, the verse is not used with a number describing it, which Fred should have indicated.
Two, that verse cannot be used to indicate time as in a 24 hour day, as it only describes the timelessness of God.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night.
Psalm 90:4 (ESV)

Rob

Psalms were not the writings of Moses. The first of the Psalms were written at least 300-400 years after Moses In the 300-400 years after Moses, the definition of 'yom' could have changed drastically, just as the word 'gay' changed drastically in less than 100 years.

Also, Psalm 90 says that a thousand years is like yesterday... not in the sight of man, but in the sight of God.

 

[preachinjesus]

Unless it is also a "waste of your time", you will have to help me out "Corleone Faith" ???

It's never a waste of time around here. Apologies I think my attempt to add levity to a super-charged thread didn't work. :saint:

These guys were asking if you could prove you're "Baptist" enough. I threw something out that I thought would be helpful for you but clearly it wasn't.

I hate it when my vocal inflection doesn't come through my keyboard. :BangHead:

A couple of weeks ago at a Bible study one of our more, um, fundamental brothers got hot and bothered by something somebody said that had little to do with actual Christianity. He accused the guy of being heterodox and not a believer. The other guy didn't know what to do so I started asking him the same questions I asked you. Towards the end I just recited the baptism ceremony from the Godfather...it was humorous for the guys in our group...tried it here and it didn't work. Apologies for my silliness.

No offense intended. :flower: