Hello Ron,
Keep in mind the teaching of what are called sovereign grace baptists did not take root until the 1980s with john zens . Are you of the view that says we are only under 9 of the commandments now?
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Can A Baptist Believe In TULIP And Not Be Reformed?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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Hello Ron,
Keep in mind the teaching of what are called sovereign grace baptists did not take root until the 1980s with john zens . Are you of the view that says we are only under 9 of the commandments now?
Schaeffer was a Calvinist and Reformed (Covenantal, Historic Premil).
Believe it or not I actually do have a MacArthur Study Bible along with several other of his texts. I wouldn't start with him for a thorough review of this topic though. One of the great difficulties (of which there are many) in his work is his inability (or should I posit his staff's inability) to rightly frame the integration of covenantal grace from the Old Covenants to the New Covenant. Also given the nature of interpretative challenges within dispensationalism, specifically in reconciling federal immanence with a wholly economic Trinity there is more work that needs to be done in order to offer a reasonable fusion of Reformed theology with pre-trib/pre-mil dispensationalism. Dr MacArthur isnt a good starting point for a rigorous conversation here.
Given that Calvin was, himself, avowedly historical premill and clearly presented his theological system within a covenantal framework it is hard to see how else one could be thoroughly Reformed and Dispensational
Over the matter of God's immutability why would he portray or act differently across different "eras/dispensations"? If a key to Reformed theology, yes even its eschatolgy, is the consumation of God's elect how does one reconcile the transitory nature of grace evidenced in dispensationalism with the past 1800 years of Reformed theology teaching? There are lots of questions here...but others may provide a better starting point.
Howdy. :wavey:
Perhaps what are known as Reformed Baptist did but I seem to remember that they were getting a foothold even in the 70's. I went a Reformed Baptist church in the early 70's.
Believers are under none of the commandments. Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness (justifying and sanctifying) to them that believe. Rom. 10:4. End as in object, purpose, fulfillment and termination. The Scriptures nowhere separate the law into civil, dietary, ceremonial and moral. It just says the Law and means all of it. If you are under any of it you are under all of it.
convicted1
Guest
Dear Jesusfan,
Here is what the title of the thread states:
I am all for banning baptists that believe in "TULIP"....lol
I am just kidding my DoG Brethern. He(Jesusfan) lobbed that pitch, and I had to swing at it.
Now, to the OP. I would imagine that someone can be reformed, and not hold to all five points....but being a "freewiller", someone way more qualified than I would give a far better response. Those of us who hold to "FW" have varying views such as pre-,mid-,post trib rapture, Amil(which is what I believe), to Gap Theory, etc. I would imagine holding to ALL five points, isn't the "litmus test" to determine if one is reformed or not in their theology?? Am I correct guys??
i am I AM's!!
Willis
Here is what the title of the thread states:
I am all for banning baptists that believe in "TULIP"....lol
I am just kidding my DoG Brethern. He(Jesusfan) lobbed that pitch, and I had to swing at it.
Now, to the OP. I would imagine that someone can be reformed, and not hold to all five points....but being a "freewiller", someone way more qualified than I would give a far better response. Those of us who hold to "FW" have varying views such as pre-,mid-,post trib rapture, Amil(which is what I believe), to Gap Theory, etc. I would imagine holding to ALL five points, isn't the "litmus test" to determine if one is reformed or not in their theology?? Am I correct guys??
i am I AM's!!
Willis
convicted1
Guest
(((((AMEN!!!!)))))
Anutter (((((AMEN!!!!)))))
One more (((((AMEN!!!!)))))
:wavey: :thumbs: :jesus: :godisgood:
yes it might have been the 70s
Ron,what law do you believe is in our heart?
the ten commandments are still in effect, what do you think condemns all men at the white throne judgement
romans 10:4 is a good verse
so is 1tim1
notice the passage references the ten commandments
for you Jd
The Reformed Baptist Page
Looking forward to attending the Georgia Association of Confessional Baptists (GACB) General Assembly next week! There are a good number of brothers I've never met. The schedule of topics looks fantastic! I would appreciate your prayers for God's presence and direction. ~ Brian
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Willis
Believers are still under the ten commandments, they are in our heart now ,internally, not outward on tablets of stone
The law of faith and the law of Christ.
For unbelievers not believers. The whole of the book of Galatians is about not being under the law. Why would we put ourselves under a yoke that not even the best of the Jews could bear? When men, Reformed folks especially, put believers under the law what they do is destroy the law. I have an extremely high view of the law. To make the law to be something we can keep as believers is to bring down the law to us and makes the law to be less than what it is. The law can only kill. It can never give hope or life. We can never make ourselves better by the law any more than we can live by the law. I serve God by love not by law. Love is a much better motivator than law.
What is a lawful use of the law? Paul tells us in 1Tim. 1. It isn't for believers but for unbelievers.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Zephaniah 3:2
She obeys no one, she accepts no correction. She does not trust in the LORD, she does not draw near to her God.
Hebrews 7:18
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Romans 13:8
[ Love Fulfills the Law ] Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
She obeys no one, she accepts no correction. She does not trust in the LORD, she does not draw near to her God.
Hebrews 7:18
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Romans 13:8
[ Love Fulfills the Law ] Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
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Osage Bluestem
Member
Sorry. You must have thought I was addressing you as you were the post above mine. I was actually adressing the OP.
I believe Calvin was Amillenial and routinely blasted premillenialism as "chialism".
God's word reveals that he has revealed his plan to man in his own time building upon his revelation up until the last apostle died.
That is basically dispensationalism.
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convicted1
Guest
Matt. 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: The "Laws" that are referenced here, are the ones that Jesus spoke above in the preceding verses in my post here. It all boils down to "LOVE"!!
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Greek word for "decayeth": palaioō G3822
Thayer's
1) to make ancient or old
a) to become old, to be worn out
b) of things worn out by time and use
2) to declare a thing to be old and so about to be abrogated
Greek word for "old": gēraskō G1095
Thayer's
1) to grow old
2) of things and institutions: to fail from age, be obsolescent
Greek word for "vanish": aphanismos G854
Thayer's
1) disappearance
2) destruction
The Ten Commandments(OT LAW) were fulfilled when Jesus hung, bled, and died, and arose that third and appointed morning!! They are no longer in effect today. We live under Grace now, and not the law.
i am I AM's!!
Willis
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David Lamb
Well-Known Member
That sounds strange to me, Iconoclast, unless perhaps you meant upper case S, G and B, and were refering to a grouping of Baptist churches calling themselves "Sovereign Grace Baptist". Cerainly Baptists believing in the doctrines of God's sovereign grace were around long before the 1980s.
They (baptists holding to the Doctrines of Grace) have had various names here in the UK, including "Particular Baptist", "Grace Baptist", and "Reformed Baptist".
The first and second London Baptist Confessions of Faith (1646 and 1689 respectively) were both based firmly on the Doctrines of Grace.
I suppose what I'm really asking you is this: What is "the teaching of what are called sovereign grace baptists (which) did not take root until the 1980s with john zens"?
convicted1
Guest
Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal. 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
So you see, Brother Iconoclast, we are freed from the law which kept us under bondage. Why would God place the law in our hearts, when time and time again, the OT people couldn't keep it?? God isn't going to free us from the curse of the law, and then turn around and place them in our hearts. We are free from the law through the blood of Christ.
i am I AM's!!
Willis
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal. 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
So you see, Brother Iconoclast, we are freed from the law which kept us under bondage. Why would God place the law in our hearts, when time and time again, the OT people couldn't keep it?? God isn't going to free us from the curse of the law, and then turn around and place them in our hearts. We are free from the law through the blood of Christ.
i am I AM's!!
Willis
Tell me more about the GACB - is there an official announcement posted somewhere?
David Lamb, here are three pages that try to explain the splintered Reformed/Calvinist Baptist groups that have sprung up in the past few decades in America:
What Strain of Reformed Baptist Do You Belong To?
Calvinism and Mental Health
The Reformed Baptists: A Fundamentalism File Research Report
What Strain of Reformed Baptist Do You Belong To?
Calvinism and Mental Health
The Reformed Baptists: A Fundamentalism File Research Report
I saw this on facebook, there is a website called the reformed baptist page,it shows articles and discussions
http://www.facebook.com/#!/ReformedBaptist
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