Can a believer sin?

[charles_creech78]

God was on His throne when Christ was on the cross. Should it be strange to think Christ would have a throne in His kingdom on earth even while God sits on his throne in heaven?

You are looking at this natural and not spiritual. For God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in SPIRIT and in truth. Lu 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the KINGDOM OF GOD COME, he answered them and said, The KINGDOM OF GOD COMETH NOT WITH OBSERVATION. Lu 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU. My brother it is a spiritual KINGDOM not a natural earth kingdom. It is not a kingdom like we have on this earth.

 

[James_Newman]

Now you are doing the same thing Bob does. First of all, spiritual in the bible does not mean invisible. Second, using one 'spiritual' statement to nullify dozens of literal statements is wreckless. You need to ask yourself 'is there another way to understand what Christ said that doesn't require me to spiritualize every other kingdom verse in the bible?'

 

[charles_creech78]

Now you are doing the same thing Bob does. First of all, spiritual in the bible does not mean invisible. Second, using one 'spiritual' statement to nullify dozens of literal statements is wreckless. You need to ask yourself 'is there another way to understand what Christ said that doesn't require me to spiritualize every other kingdom verse in the bible?'

So you are saying Gods kingdom is a natural kingdom. Christ said these words that I speak unto you are spiritual and they are life.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE. Lu 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they HAD SEEN A SPIRIT. LU 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your heart? Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES, as ye see me have. See they was looking on him as a spiritual body by what they have naturely seen. Have you ever seen a spiritual kingdom? God is a spirit and his kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. How do you know a spirit is not invisible have you ever seen one. Have you ever seen the Holy Ghost? Have you ever felt the Holy Ghost.

 

[James_Newman]

I didn't say a spirit couldn't be invisible, I said spiritual doesn't mean invisible. Spiritual means 'of the spirit'. Paul spoke thus of the resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Christ was raised a spiritual body, was He not? But He could be seen, He could be touched, He ate with His disciples. We tend to think 'spiritual' means 'not literal' and that is not what it means. The kingdom can be a spiritual kingdom and still be a literal kingdom.

 

[DHK]

God will graft them back in when it His time.

Rom 11:23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Rom 11:24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?

Rom 9:6¶Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:


Why does it say this DHK;?
Rom 9:27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Either answer the questions from this post directly and honestly without evading them, or admit from the Scripture that you just quoted that the literal one thousand year millennial kingdom has not yet arrived. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Brother Bob]

Either answer the questions from this post directly and honestly without evading them, or admit from the Scripture that you just quoted that the literal one thousand year millennial kingdom has not yet arrived. You can't have it both ways.__________________
DHK

I answered it many times.

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Jesus knew you were going to ask me this, what about that DHK:. I would have to deny Jesus to say the Kingdom of God is yet to come. It will be delivered up to the Father one day though.

 

[DHK]

I answered it many times.

No you haven't. Particulary the very specific questions that I asked of you.

I would have to deny Jesus to say the Kingdom of God is yet to come.

You deny Jesus in not admitting that Christ said it was a future literal kingdom. He taught this to his disciples many times, as they asked: "What will be the sign of these things. It was all future.

 

[Brother Bob]

I would have to deny Jesus to say the Kingdom of God is yet to come.
You deny Jesus in not admitting that Christ said it was a future literal kingdom. He taught this to his disciples many times, as they asked: "What will be the sign of these things. It was all future.__________________
DHK

No, He taught them it would all be complete when He returns again. Even though the kingdom is within us, we still are waiting for the redemption of the fleshly man, to be a part of that Kingdom also.

You have answered nothing for me. You have never given an answer for Jesus saying the Kingdom is within you. Seems you said it was not real or something but I can't remember for sure. I am sure the Lord knows though. Looks like any of you fellows would answer, Jesus saying the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

[James_Newman]

No, He taught them it would all be complete when He returns again. Even though the kingdom is within us, we still are waiting for the redemption of the fleshly man, to be a part of that Kingdom also.

You have answered nothing for me. You have never given an answer for Jesus saying the Kingdom is within you. Seems you said it was not real or something but I can't remember for sure. I am sure the Lord knows though. Looks like any of you fellows would answer, Jesus saying the Kingdom of God is within you.

Perhaps the kingdom within was the word of the kingdom? The pharisees (who Jesus was speaking to when he said that) had all the scripture up to that time and should have been able to understand Jesus' teachings on the kingdom.

 

[jne1611]

I am sorry DHK; but the boat set sail over 2000 years ago. If God is going to save all of Israel, he does not need a 1000 year reign to do it, He can just do it.

Bro. Bob, Do you believe God is going to save Israel? I mean the nation of the Jews? If so, When? What do you believe the fullness of the gentiles is?

 

[charles_creech78]

Perhaps the kingdom within was the word of the kingdom? The pharisees (who Jesus was speaking to when he said that) had all the scripture up to that time and should have been able to understand Jesus' teachings on the kingdom.

Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, joy in THE HOLY GHOST. The pharisees was looking for Christ to make a natural kingdom. Something you can see naturaly. Just like you are looking for a kingdom naturaly.

 

[Brother Bob]

Rom 9:27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

When ever the blinded tribes of Israel or blinded part of Israel can truly see who the Messiah is and accept him. And when this time comes those who accept Him will be saved.

Rom 11:23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The ten lost tribes of Israel are now becoming a part of Judah and forfieting their name and taking the name of Judah. They are still blinded to Jesus Christ, but the time is coming when ever tongue shall confess Him and ever knee shall bow. You have no doctrine to tie this into the "souls that were beheaded for the word of God, and they lived and reigned (past tense) with Christ a thousand years. Even the scripture you use for the thousand years, says it in the past tense, which would be when Jesus said it was.

Rom 9:6¶Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

 

[charles_creech78]

I didn't say a spirit couldn't be invisible, I said spiritual doesn't mean invisible. Spiritual means 'of the spirit'. Paul spoke thus of the resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Christ was raised a spiritual body, was He not? But He could be seen, He could be touched, He ate with His disciples. We tend to think 'spiritual' means 'not literal' and that is not what it means. The kingdom can be a spiritual kingdom and still be a literal kingdom.

I do not see your point. What is your point? Are you saying the kingdom of God has not come yet.

 

[James_Newman]

I do not see your point. What is your point? Are you saying the kingdom of God has not come yet.

yes that is what I am saying.

 

[Hope of Glory]

You hang your hat on one or two Scriptures in the Bible ignoring all others

The phrase “kingdom of God” appears in 68 verses of the NT and the single word “kingdom” appears 158 times in 150 verses. The majority of the passages on the kingdom can be easily proven by plain reading to be something that is literal and future and we know that it will last a thousand years.

But, there are five main passages in the NT that are used by those who believe that the kingdom of God is simply spiritual and only in the hearts of men rather than a physical, literal, and future kingdom that shall last one thousand years. These passages are: Luke 17:20-21; Romans 14:17; 1 Corinthians 4:20; Colossians 1:13; and Revelation 1:9.

Out of these five, four of them are easily coordinated with the rest. The passage in Luke is the easiest, since even the KJV lists the correct reading in the notes as "among you".

 

[Brother Bob]

we know that it will last a thousand years.

How you know this?

Kingdom in Luke

932
basileia
basileia
bas-il-i'-ah
from basileuV - basileus 935; properly, royalty, i.e. (abstractly) rule, or (concretely) a realm (literally or figuratively):--kingdom, + reign.

 

[Brother Bob]

yes that is what I am saying.

Let God be truth and every man a liar.

 

[charles_creech78]

Rom 9:27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

When ever the blinded tribes of Israel or blinded part of Israel can truly see who the Messiah is and accept him. And when this time comes those who accept Him will be saved.

Rom 11:23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The ten lost tribes of Israel are now becoming a part of Judah and forfieting their name and taking the name of Judah. They are still blinded to Jesus Christ, but the time is coming when ever tongue shall confess Him and ever knee shall bow. You have no doctrine to tie this into the "souls that were beheaded for the word of God, and they lived and reigned (past tense) with Christ a thousand years. Even the scripture you use for the thousand years, says it in the past tense, which would be when Jesus said it was.

Rom 9:6¶Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Amen Brother Bob Mt 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. Mt 27:51 And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; Mt 27:52 AND THE GRAVES WERE OPENED;AND MANY BODIES OF THE SAINTS WHICH SLEPT AROSE, Mt 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[Brother Bob]

You fellows crack me up. Here you both are arguing for a future 1000 year kingdom, but none of you agree with the other. James, Lacy, Hope and others think they are going to get some pearls and cities when they get to that kingdom because of their "good" works. DHK; and many more believe there will be a 1000 year literal kingdom, and then there will be a new heaven and new earth with another kingdom set up. If I understand what they have said for the last year or two. Jesus destroyed all of those beliefs by saying the Kingdom was already here. Sure the flesh yet has to become a part of that Kingdom, that is why it speaks sometimes of it is to come. Its talking about when Jesus comes in His power and Glory to recieve His Kingdom, both soul and body and deliver it up to the Father. That is scripture by the Holiest of all, Jesus Christ.

 

[James_Newman]

Isaiah 2:4
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Ummm, thats spiritual nations and spiritual war, because the kingdom is within us. Haven't you noticed that the kingdom you live in doesn't live up to the kingdom in the bible? Or have you been too busy polishing your (spiritual) crown?