Thinkingstuff
Active Member
No I don't. I've been saved, I'm being saved and I will be saved. Salvation certainly.
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CAn A catholic Agree with me That we aLl are saints to god as Much As mary/Apostles?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Sooo, in what sense have you been "saved"??? Tell us about it.
hence the need for the "Grace of God" supplied per RCC thru Sacraments, as there is no real security, as we MUST co assist/co operate with God in order to finally get really saved by God!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
You got it a bit wrong. Grace of God is supplied at all points in your relationship with God. Reading the bible gives grace. giving to those in need give grace. I am secure that as long as I remain in Christ I'm saved. I don't question whether or not I'll be saved as long as I remain in Christ. I have the security to know that what God has promised he will provide as long as I remain in him. Where the issue arises is when some one departs from Christ. There is always a chance to returne after repentance. But there are those who will never repent and come back into relationship with the Lord.
The problem here is that "in Christ" has several different applications in the New Testament some of which you had no part in obtaining.
For example, the elect were "chosen in him" before the world began - Eph. 1:4. You were not around at the time of that choice and placement.
For example, the elect are "created in him" - Eph. 2:10 and you have no contribution in an act of creation. Here this in context refers to quickening and is an act of God's will not yours - Jn. 1:13.
For example, the elect are to "walk in him" - Col. 2:6 - which simply means to be filled with the Spirit or to walk after the Spirit. However, every single time you sin you are walkng after the flesh and that aspect of your walk is not "in him" - Eph. 5:18; Gal. 5:25.
For example, it is used METAPHORICALLY in regard to church membership as it is also in regard to baptism.
For example, it is used REPRESENTATIVELY in regard to ONE MAN - 1 Cor. 15:22; Rom. 5:15-20 acting in behalf of all those he represents.
For example, it is used LEGALLY of a POSITION in Christ - Eph. 2:6.
When did you know for a certainty that you have been saved by garce of God? What happened, what did you do to get saved by the lord?
you never seem to indicate at what time imn the salvation process a catholic actually knows that God has save them!
IF a catholic departs to become a non RC, are they still saved?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Salvation isn't forensic and niether is Justification..
At all points in their relationship with Christ from belief to baptism to every step of the way.
Depends.
the Apostles John and paul knew they were saved by god, certain of that fact!
When did you put trust/faith in jesus to get saved?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I also know I'm saved by God. And he continually saves me. When was my heart converted to God? I would say in the middle of October 1983 in Kijabe Kenya.
However, God was converting me long before that. Thus we was saving me long before that.
was it by your faith, or some sacrament of grace that you were converted?
And what do you mean was a long process?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
It was both. The grace of God enabled me to acheive faith to understand and to believe.
God orchestrated my life such that I would be in the position to accept the faith given to me. From the very begining of my life. Every event experienced worked towards my salvation even the bad stuff God turned bad and made it useful in bringing me to that faith.
How did you 'achieve faith?" Were you saved in the baptism, or by your faith in jesus?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Both............................ And I'm being saved as I'm being sanctified. And I will be saved upon my glorification. Baptism is the "signature on the contract of the New Covenant" so to speak. (this is an example mind you and expressed this way as an explanation.) I sign the contract by obediently following Christ into baptism where he signs the contract by giving me the Holy Spirit. All of this is done in faith.
So did you receive the Spirit, was saved, in the rite of baptism then?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Yes I received the seal of the Holy Spirit at baptism. And I recieved the Spirit upon my obtaining faith and was saved as God enabled me to live in ministry for him.
Are you saying that God regenerated you in baptism, and you were saved when confirmed?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Regeneration is another issue all together. I was baptized as a child and again when I was an adult. I believe that there was a seal of the Holy Spirit when I was baptized but my family didn't follow through with their promises to teach me the faith. But that was the starting point of God working to regenerate me. God in his infinate mercy having chose me before I was born slowly overtime using many methods and means to quicken my heart to be able to believe to begin with and when I was ready he revealed faith to me in a way I understood it. Interestingly enough this was through protestants at a missionary boarding school's convocation event. And I did go up for the Alter Call and I did say the sinners prayer and my life was changed forever. Had my parents been faithful to my baptismal promises they made the story may have been a little different for me but God's mercy still accounted for that and I recieved the faith I should have been given differently. But no matter I'm grateful for even have been shown the faith by baptist missionaries. And I believe regeneration happens differently for people. God makes people able to believe in differing manners and once believe regeneration continues in our sanctification in that as we grow in christ not only are we alive but we come more alive as the vestiges of sin and death drop away from us. But most people even catholics I've come across remember a specific point at which they were converted by God. But that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit wasn't working towards that person regeneration before that point.
So what do you point to and say that THAT was the time the Lord saved you, and that you were justified before God, and going to heaven?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Since salvation and justification are neither forensic the question doesn't make sense. God saved me when I was baptized God saved me when I received faith. As long as I remian in him I will be saved at my death and will go to heaven. And its all salvation.
One is either saved by God or not? WHEN did the Lord make you no longer a sinner, but a saint?