Can a Christian sin?

[steaver]

HP: If he doesn’t remember them any more, past present and future, upon what basis can He chastise a believer for sin??

First, understand that this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. The prophecy is given for the house of Israel and for the house of Judah. However, we Gentile believers will partake with them when this is fulfilled after the days of the great tribulation when we shall literally walk with God in His literal Kingdom reign here on earth. As for now, we have a deposit of the Holy Spirit and a promise of acceptance through faith in the blood of Christ. We have entered into a covenant with God through Christ and this promise of no rememberance will be fulfilled in those who are in Christ Jesus in that day.

As for now, we live by promisses and faith in those promisses. Promisses given by God and therefore they cannot be broken.

Second, condemnation from the second death is what has been removed from those who are in Christ Jesus. This must not be confused with consequences. There are always consequences for sin, but Jesus paid the second death penalty for sin. God must still chasen His children. When His children have all been ressurrected, or changed in the twinkling of an eye, there will be no more sin nature and there will be no more rememberance of sin for His children.

When Ananias answered the Lord "I have heard by many of this man(Saul), how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:" did God answer back "what evil are you talking about?". God knows what sins we have done and where we have come from. His promise is to remember them no more after our ressurrection. Until then, He will chasen His children for their own well being and if necessary even take their physical life.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

BTW; what do you do about the scripture that "you must keep His commandments"????

BBob,

I press towards that high calling knowing that when I fail I have a High Priest interceding for me and a Father chasening me with consequences to face.

 

[Brother Bob]

I press towards that high calling knowing that when I fail I have a High Priest interceding for me and a Father chasening me with consequences to face.

While pressing you just ignore scripture, is that right?

1John 2:
2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You are saying keep His commandments sometimes, right?

How do you know that you know Him, if you don't keep His commandments?

So, God will remember your sins until the "end times" then He will forget them, did I understand you right.

BBob, :thumbs:

 

[Marcia]

All past tense.

I am still reading posts on page 18 but have to say that I'm with DHK on the way he answered you regarding your last question to me back on page 15.

DHK quoted scripture and then you said "all past tense." Some of it is present tense, and in Eph. 2 it says we are already seated in the heavenly places.


4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

There is no part of me that is not saved; I am saved totally. I do not possess righteousness on my own - it is only from Christ. We still sin because we have been redeemed spiritually but not completely. That will happen after death.

Are you saying that part of us is saved, but the part that isn't needs to be "cleaned up" by our own actions?

 

[Brother Bob]

I am still reading posts on page 18 but have to say that I'm with DHK on the way he answered you regarding your last question to me back on page 15.

DHK quoted scripture and then you said "all past tense." Some of it is present tense, and in Eph. 2 it says we are already seated in the heavenly places.


4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

There is no part of me that is not saved; I am saved totally. I do not possess righteousness on my own - it is only from Christ. We still sin because we have been redeemed spiritually but not completely. That will happen after death.

Are you saying that part of us is saved, but the part that isn't needs to be "cleaned up" by our own actions?

Not by our own actions but by the same Spirit that made you alive in Christ Jesus will also make you body alive in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Also, means something has already been delivered.

1 Corth;

40: There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41: There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42: So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46: Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48: As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

How can you say the body has been "born again". If it had, it would not have to die. Is there a part of you that will not die, when your body dies, and that part will enter into a rest with the Lord, for to be with Christ is far better? To say the body is "saved" or "born again" is totally false. If you had been born again, you would not have to die, yet you are perishing every day in the flesh, but inwardly you are renewed day by day.


You did not answer my question, will a part of you go to heaven when you die natural death???

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Not by our own actions but by the same Spirit that made you alive in Christ Jesus will also make you body alive in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Also, means something has already been delivered.

BBob,

Read on Bob:

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

I've been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb,
Saved and sanctified I am.
All my sins are washed away.
I've been redeemed.

We wait for the redemption of our bodies. On that glorious day when the Lord comes for His own, and the trumpet shall sound, we shall rise to meet the Lord in the air, and our bodies shall be changed. They too will be "redeemed."
That is the only part of us that is not "redeemed." It suffers under the curse: pain, weakness, sickness, and untold suffering. But someday all pain will forevermore be gone.

 

[Brother Bob]

Read on Bob:

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

I've been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb,
Saved and sanctified I am.
All my sins are washed away.
I've been redeemed.

We wait for the redemption of our bodies. On that glorious day when the Lord comes for His own, and the trumpet shall sound, we shall rise to meet the Lord in the air, and our bodies shall be changed. They too will be "redeemed."
That is the only part of us that is not "redeemed." It suffers under the curse: pain, weakness, sickness, and untold suffering. But someday all pain will forevermore be gone.

That is exactly what I said, but inwardly we have been "made alive in Christ Jesus" raised to walk a newness of life.

Marcia said that her entire being had already been saved, or redeemed. She said she was repeating you.

Have you been born again and were you born again in the flesh, if so, why will you die. You do not have a Celestrial body yet.

Why do you not at least agree with me when I get it right??? You hate me that much??

It is clear that you and "steaver" do not agree.

Lets see if you and Marcia agree.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

That is exactly what I said, but inwardly we have been "made alive in Christ Jesus" raised to walk a newness of life.

Marcia said that her entire being had already been saved, or redeemed. She said she was repeating you.

Have you been born again and were you born again in the flesh, if so, why will you die. You do not have a Celestrial body yet.

BBob,

It is not exactly what you said. I have been redeemed.
The only part of me that will not go to heaven is my body. Marcia agrees with that and has stated so. I have also stated the same in the past. Yet God has redeemed all of me. That sounds like a paradox. It is confusing.

The Bible says that our "bodies" are the temple of the Holy Spirit, that they are not our own; they belong to God, and He bought or paid for them with a great price--the blood of Christ (1Cor.6:19,20).
That describes redemption perfectly. He paid the price for me--all of me, including my body. I am redeemed. My body does not belong to me; it belongs to Christ. That is why it is not mine to go out and live in the flesh and commit adultery as I please. Right? I belong to Christ. He redeemed me. My body is His temple.

However when I die my body will be buried and will await the resurrection. That is the way that God has ordered things. We follow his scheme of things, not our own logic, our own pattern, or the way that we think things ought to be. Our spirits will go to heaven, and our bodies will await the resurrection. That is how God has decreed it.

BTW Bob, I don't hate you.

 

[Brother Bob]

It is not exactly what you said. I have been redeemed.
The only part of me that will not go to heaven is my body. Marcia agrees with that and has stated so. I have also stated the same in the past. Yet God has redeemed all of me. That sounds like a paradox. It is confusing.

The Bible says that our "bodies" are the temple of the Holy Spirit, that they are not our own; they belong to God, and He bought or paid for them with a great price--the blood of Christ (1Cor.6:19,20).
That describes redemption perfectly. He paid the price for me--all of me, including my body. I am redeemed. My body does not belong to me; it belongs to Christ. That is why it is not mine to go out and live in the flesh and commit adultery as I please. Right? I belong to Christ. He redeemed me. My body is His temple.

However when I die my body will be buried and will await the resurrection. That is the way that God has ordered things. We follow his scheme of things, not our own logic, our own pattern, or the way that we think things ought to be. Our spirits will go to heaven, and our bodies will await the resurrection. That is how God has decreed it.

BTW Bob, I don't hate you.

DHK: We wait for the redemption of our bodies. On that glorious day when the Lord comes for His own, and the trumpet shall sound, we shall rise to meet the Lord in the air, and our bodies shall be changed. They too will be "redeemed."

Why do you always use "double talk"? You made the above statement 2 posts back, so I know you did not forget so fast, so you do it delibertaly.

Are you living in a Celestrial body now DHK, or do you have to wait to be redeemed from the grave.

I have not seen Marcia say, that part of her, except the body will go to heaven at the natural death. I ask her, but I did not see the response.

I will ask both of you, the part that is going to heaven, is it without "sin"???

BBob,

 

[Marcia]

Not by our own actions but by the same Spirit that made you alive in Christ Jesus will also make you body alive in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Also, means something has already been delivered.

1 Corth;

40: There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41: There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42: So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46: Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48: As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

How can you say the body has been "born again". If it had, it would not have to die. Is there a part of you that will not die, when your body dies, and that part will enter into a rest with the Lord, for to be with Christ is far better? To say the body is "saved" or "born again" is totally false. If you had been born again, you would not have to die, yet you are perishing every day in the flesh, but inwardly you are renewed day by day.


You did not answer my question, will a part of you go to heaven when you die natural death???

BBob,

I didn't say the body has been born again. Where did I say that???

All of me except my body goes to heaven when I die. My resurrected body I get later.

 

[Brother Bob]

I didn't say the body has been born again. Where did I say that???

All of me except my body goes to heaven when I die. My resurrected body I get later.

There is no part of me that is not saved; I am saved totally.

Maybe you believe you can be "saved", but not redeemed. I thought to be redeemed is to be saved.

Isa 63:9In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

Col 1:14In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

BBob,

 

[Marcia]

Why do you always use "double talk"? You made the above statement 2 posts back, so I know you did not forget so fast, so you do it delibertaly.

Are you living in a Celestrial body now DHK, or do you have to wait to be redeemed from the grave.

I have not seen Marcia say, that part of her, except the body will go to heaven at the natural death. I ask her, but I did not see the response.

I will ask both of you, the part that is going to heaven, is it without "sin"???

BBob,

Okay, I see that you are interpreting my statement that I was totally saved as saying that my body has been born again. That is a wrong interpretation.

I am totally saved - my body is still in its corrupt, decayed form but it's saved. It's just that the fruits of this will be seen later.

It seems that you are making what sounds like to me a sort of gnostic duality between body and spirit here. Our body in and of itself is not the cause of sin - sin is first conceived in the mind and will.

When we are saved, we are totally saved but the manifestation of this salvation is not seen completely - either body or soul/spirit until we die and have our resurrected bodies.

It's not that my soul is saved and my body is not; I am saved body and soul.

 

[Marcia]

Maybe you believe you can be "saved", but not redeemed. I thought to be redeemed is to be saved.

BBob,

No, I don't think that one can be saved but not redeemed.

 

[DHK]

Why do you always use "double talk"? You made the above statement 2 posts back, so I know you did not forget so fast, so you do it delibertaly.

Are you living in a Celestrial body now DHK, or do you have to wait to be redeemed from the grave.

I have not seen Marcia say, that part of her, except the body will go to heaven at the natural death. I ask her, but I did not see the response.

I will ask both of you, the part that is going to heaven, is it without "sin"???

BBob,

Nothing sinful can stand before a holy and righteous God.
My spirit goes to heaven; my body goes to the grave.
My spirit has no sin; they are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.
They were covered by the blood of Jesus Christ on the day that I was saved, all of them: past, present, and future. It was the only way that I could enter into heaven. For I could die at any time subsequent to my salvation.

 

[Brother Bob]

Okay, I see that you are interpreting my statement that I was totally saved as saying that my body has been born again. That is a wrong interpretation.

I am totally saved - my body is still in its corrupt, decayed form but it's saved. It's just that the fruits of this will be seen later.

It seems that you are making what sounds like to me a sort of gnostic duality between body and spirit here. Our body in and of itself is not the cause of sin - sin is first conceived in the mind and will.

When we are saved, we are totally saved but the manifestation of this salvation is not seen completely - either body or soul/spirit until we die and have our resurrected bodies.

It's not that my soul is saved and my body is not; I am saved body and soul.

If the fruits are too be seen later, so is the salvation of the body.

If the soul is saved the body will be delivered also, but you are not saved from the grave.

You soul is saved from hell, but your body is not saved from the grave, it has to wait for its change.

It will be saved, but as of yet, it is not, or you would not have to die. I have seen men pat their flesh and say this is the part that is saved, all the time they were dying.


BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Nothing sinful can stand before a holy and righteous God.
My spirit goes to heaven; my body goes to the grave.
My spirit has no sin; they are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.
They were covered by the blood of Jesus Christ on the day that I was saved, all of them: past, present, and future. It was the only way that I could enter into heaven. For I could die at any time subsequent to my salvation.

How come the "sin nature" was not covered.

Why is your body going to the grave?

I notice you scooted around the two quotes about redemption.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Nothing sinful can stand before a holy and righteous God.
My spirit goes to heaven; my body goes to the grave.
My spirit has no sin; they are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.
They were covered by the blood of Jesus Christ on the day that I was saved, all of them: past, present, and future. It was the only way that I could enter into heaven. For I could die at any time subsequent to my salvation.

Your spirit had no future sin, after you were saved. That is where you error, to say where God dwells, you sin.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Your spirit had no future sin, after you were saved. That is where you error, to say where God dwells, you sin.

BBob,

Yes, I sin every day. And I confess it. God forgives it. And my fellowship is restored with God. My walk with God is restored.
But that has nothing to do with my salvation. Regarding my salvation: God forgave all my sins: past, present, and future. When he looks down from heaven, he doesn't see DHK, but only the righteousness of Jesus Christ. For I am clothed in His righteousness. He does not see my sin, so to speak.

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes, I sin every day. And I confess it. God forgives it. And my fellowship is restored with God. My walk with God is restored.
But that has nothing to do with my salvation. Regarding my salvation: God forgave all my sins: past, present, and future. When he looks down from heaven, he doesn't see DHK, but only the righteousness of Jesus Christ. For I am clothed in His righteousness. He does not see my sin, so to speak.

1Cr 15:36[Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

You soul had to die dead to the love of sin, in order to be made alive in Christ Jesus.

Your body will die the natural death, in order to be made alive spiritually.

No part of you can be saved, except it die first and that includes the body.



Your spirit doe not sin, after salvation. It cannot sin, for it is born of God.

BBob,

 

[Marcia]

If the fruits are too be seen later, so is the salvation of the body.

If the soul is saved the body will be delivered also, but you are not saved from the grave.

You soul is saved from hell, but your body is not saved from the grave, it has to wait for its change.

It will be saved, but as of yet, it is not, or you would not have to die. I have seen men pat their flesh and say this is the part that is saved, all the time they were dying.


BBob,

My body will die; I know that. It will go into the grave. But it will be raised one day, "incorruptible." It's saved, otherwise it would not be raised incorruptible.

When I die, I am saved, even my body, but I don't get the incorruptible body until later. That body will be my same body I have now, but renewed and glorified. Jesus' bodily resurrection is the example of this.

What does this have to do with topic?