can A Chrsitian Attain Sinless perfection before they Die?

[David Lamb]

David you seem to be a very humble man with a very gentle spirit and for that I praise God. However for you to say that no one can love the Lord with all their heart soul and strength for even a moment is outrageous! There has been a many a men and women who have literally given their lives and I have no doubt that they did so loving the Lord with all their heart soul and strength in those moments.
My brother you need to seriously re-think your position.

Thank you Freeatlast for your kind and undeserved words.

Regarding your statement that I need to rethink my position on this matter, I am afraid you have not convinced me, nor, I imagine (although I cannot speak for them), the many other members of the BB who believe that sinlessness in this life is impossible. Perhaps you remember last August's thread: Do Christians Sin Every Day? You participated in that one, and so did I. After your first post on that thread, 10 different people posted, and of them, at least 9 seem to hold the same position as I do. Of course, I am not saying that we judge the validity of a doctrine by the number of people who hold it! :laugh:

Thanks again, and God bless you richly!

 

[freeatlast]

Thank you Freeatlast for your kind and undeserved words.

Regarding your statement that I need to rethink my position on this matter, I am afraid you have not convinced me, nor, I imagine (although I cannot speak for them), the many other members of the BB who believe that sinlessness in this life is impossible. Perhaps you remember last August's thread: Do Christians Sin Every Day? You participated in that one, and so did I. After your first post on that thread, 10 different people posted, and of them, at least 9 seem to hold the same position as I do. Of course, I am not saying that we judge the validity of a doctrine by the number of people who hold it! :laugh:

Thanks again, and God bless you richly!

[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]David I am pleased to hear that you do not hold to justifying a doctrine by numbers otherwise that would mean we need to follow the RCC. However to suggest that no person has ever loved the Lord with all their heart for even a moment of their life is nothing but pure judgment with nothing to base it on.
Holding such a view is equal to saying no one can be pure in heart since a pure heart would have to mean we love Him with all our heart (an undivided heart).
Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”

What is happening today on a large scale is that so many are believing satan instead of God. God says to do something and satan says it is impossible. So instead of having faith in what God says and diligently seeking such, satan’s way, which by the way requires no immediate sacrifice just unbelief in what God says, is believed and because so many follow after his teachings instead of God's they proclaim that they can prove it cannot be done just look at all the people who have not done it. :tear:
I think I will continue to believe the Lord instead of what I see in so many. :godisgood:

[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

 

[MB]

In absolute honesty, I never gave your personal sin level a moment's thought - so maybe its you who thinks you're terribly sinful.

We are all terribly sinful creatures.

I never said I considered I was righteous enough to know with certainty I would be leaving in the Rapture, either. The Rapture isn't the same as eternal salvation. Don't know how anyone could claim there are only Jews in revelation after Chapter 4.

Isn't it because the church isn't mentioned anymore once the tribulation comes. There are only 144000 saved out of the trib. 12000 from each tribe of israel. Trust me on this You will never be included as the bride of Christ if you miss the rapture. The Church age will be over.

There is a tipping point for sin. God tells one of the Churches that IF you don't repent you will be cast into great suffering. So therefore, they had already sinned a lot - if they repented they wouldn't have to face the penalty. If they kept on they would (whatever that penalty was).

Christ also told us to come out of her that we not be partakers in her sin.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Just because a preacher has said it does not make it true. Place your trust in Christ not your church.

MB

 

[gb93433]

is that state able to be reached by us or not?

If the time period is small enough then it is possible for that time period.

 

[Mark_13]

[MB:]
"Just because a preacher has said it does not make it true. Place your trust in Christ not your church."

Why do you think I'm secretly promulgating the ideas of someone else, some obscure preacher. Is that what you do - just parrot the ideas of someone else? Why do you think I'm doing that? You accused me of being SDA I denied it (though was slightly amused). I also already indicated that these ideas of mine emerged from my own study and my own life experiences. And yet you turn around and once again accuse of me of promoting someone else's ideas without admitting it. Why would I do that?

I went to FBC of Dallas as a child, teenager, and young adult - was there during the Criswell years. I'm not going anywhere currently. For the most part am turned off by the music everywhere. Think its shallow, cloying, trite and mindless - just like most of Christendom these days.

 

[gb93433]

[MB:]I went to FBC of Dallas as a child, teenager, and young adult - was there during the Criswell years. I'm not going anywhere currently. For the most part am turned off by the music everywhere. Think its shallow, cloying, trite and mindless - just like most of Christendom these days.

Any different than what Jesus saw in His day and among his disciples? Do you remember who was told, "Get behind me Satan?"

So now the eternal question is what are you doing to make a difference in the lives of others that will last for eternity? When you go from self to others then you will see a sea of hopeless people out there who are in need of Christ and your God will become huge as you pray and your preferences unimportant.

I have been unable to see in Heb. 3:13 and Heb. 10:24, 25 the condition "if it meets all of our preferences."

 

[DaChaser1]

David you seem to be a very humble man with a very gentle spirit and for that I praise God. However for you to say that no one can love the Lord with all their heart soul and strength for even a moment is outrageous! There has been a many a men and women who have literally given their lives and I have no doubt that they did so loving the Lord with all their heart soul and strength in those moments.
My brother you need to seriously re-think your position.

ONLY Jesus ever fully kept the law of God as must be to be pleasing and acceptable to God!

he could do it because he is God....

ONLY God could ever fully keep the requirements standards set by God!

 

[DaChaser1]

[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]David I am pleased to hear that you do not hold to justifying a doctrine by numbers otherwise that would mean we need to follow the RCC. However to suggest that no person has ever loved the Lord with all their heart for even a moment of their life is nothing but pure judgment with nothing to base it on.
Holding such a view is equal to saying no one can be pure in heart since a pure heart would have to mean we love Him with all our heart (an undivided heart).
Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”

What is happening today on a large scale is that so many are believing satan instead of God. God says to do something and satan says it is impossible. So instead of having faith in what God says and diligently seeking such, satan’s way, which by the way requires no immediate sacrifice just unbelief in what God says, is believed and because so many follow after his teachings instead of God's they proclaim that they can prove it cannot be done just look at all the people who have not done it. :tear:
I think I will continue to believe the Lord instead of what I see in so many. :godisgood:

[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

God has NOT commanded me to live perfectly, to keep fully the law!

Jesus kept them completely for my behalf, and God asks me to trust in him, to receive that rightousness supplied directly by Him...

Once He saved me, he desires me to walk in the good works that he has prepared beforehand, to bring glory to Him!

saved by grace, not the law, and to live by grace and faith, not under the Law!

 

[MB]

[MB:]
"Just because a preacher has said it does not make it true. Place your trust in Christ not your church."

Why do you think I'm secretly promulgating the ideas of someone else, some obscure preacher. Is that what you do - just parrot the ideas of someone else? Why do you think I'm doing that? You accused me of being SDA I denied it (though was slightly amused). I also already indicated that these ideas of mine emerged from my own study and my own life experiences. And yet you turn around and once again accuse of me of promoting someone else's ideas without admitting it. Why would I do that?

I went to FBC of Dallas as a child, teenager, and young adult - was there during the Criswell years. I'm not going anywhere currently. For the most part am turned off by the music everywhere. Think its shallow, cloying, trite and mindless - just like most of Christendom these days.

I wasn't accusing you of anything Mark. I did not accuse you of being SDA I asked if you were. A question is not an accusation. You answered the question already why do you feel you have to keep answering it?
MB

 

[convicted1]

how about when we're asleep? :laugh:

 

[gb93433]

I did not accuse you of being SDA I asked if you were.

Seems to be a derogatory remark. I know some SDA who are very different from the SDA of years ago.

 

[Mark_13]

I wasn't accusing you of anything Mark. I did not accuse you of being SDA I asked if you were. A question is not an accusation. You answered the question already why do you feel you have to keep answering it?
MB

Well, just for the record:

Yep SDA.
MB

Also on whether they're Christians left after the Rapture (i.e. after Rev 4) it certainly will not just be Jews left on earth. Certainly there were people that hung around the Church, maybe even called themselves Christians that will decide its time to repent if there's a Rapture and they're still here. Also its not crystal clear that all the Jewish references from Rev 4 on are talking about ethnic Israel, necessarily. As just one example, Chapter 11 starts out talking about the temple, but then in v. 8 calls Jerusalem "Sodom". Meaning the temple its alluding to could be something other than the Temple in Jerusalem. (e.g. the temple of the human mind or possibly something else - Revelation is very inscrutable book - not meant for casual perusal.) But big topic - won't get into the rest of it here.