Can a person be a Liar and

[Iconoclast]

hello deacon

the eyes of the Lord are in every place beholding the good and the evil
God is the judge .
Scriptures teaches if someone habitually sins you know they are in
danger of the judgment of God.
The idea is not to figure out how close can we get to sin....and do as many sins as possible. They teaching of Romans 6:1-21.is that sins reigning power has been broken.We are to diligently pursue holiness mortifying all sin.

 

[Deacon]

There is no tally of sins that God collects on the number of sins his children commit.

God's judgment never excludes his children from their home.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of change. By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures. James 1:17-18

Those that walk according to his light will display his likeness and render fruit by to his grace... some more than others.

Rob

 

[Iconoclast]

There is no tally of sins that God collects on the number of sins his children commit.

God's judgment never excludes his children from their home.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of change. By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures. James 1:17-18

Those that walk according to his light will display his likeness and render fruit by to his grace... some more than others.

Rob

If someone continues to habitually sin...they might not be a Christian...they have no reason to believe all their sins are paid for.


6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
the answer is never...yes by all means God does not keep a tally.

For a real Christian their sins are not remembered;
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

The thing is.....if someone commits sin as a rule or continuing practice they most likely are not God's child.

:wavey:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If someone continues to habitually sin...they might not be a Christian...they have no reason to believe all their sins are paid for.


6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
the answer is never...yes by all means God does not keep a tally.

For a real Christian their sins are not remembered;
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

The thing is.....if someone commits sin as a rule or continuing practice they most likely are not God's child.

:wavey:

In other words, you don't believe in "Sola Gratia" or else you believe the individual in question was ever saved in the 1st place.

 

[Deacon]

If someone continues to habitually sin...they might not be a Christian...they have no reason to believe all their sins are paid for.


6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
the answer is never...yes by all means God does not keep a tally.

For a real Christian their sins are not remembered;
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

The thing is.....if someone commits sin as a rule or continuing practice they most likely are not God's child.

There is some agreement.

But it's not my role to decide who might be a Christian or not... God is their judge.

I know that in myself I am still continually drawn to sin.
I know my works are as bloody contaminated rags.
I know that without Christ I am hopelessly lost.

I know that I've trusted in Jesus' work on the cross to cover my sins and to his resurection for the hope that lies before me.

It is not my works that condemn me anymore - I've been justified!

The Spirit himself confirms to our spirit that we are children of God, Romans 8:16-17

I posted this on another thread a while back.

When God looks at me, he sees Christ. I have been fully justified by Christ's works.
I'm justified, I'm free from debt, I'm declared clean. I'm innocent.
Every sin, every trespass, every dirty deed, past and future, has been paid for. Colossians 2:13-14
This means I do not need to obey to please God, Jesus did it all!
I don't owe God obedience - the debt was paid.
I'm obedient because I have been made new, I'm a child of God, I no longer walk in darkness but in light.
The works I do come from the work Christ did to redeem me and the Spirit that is within me.

Some children of light have been decieved and walk in darkness for a time.
In this there is judgement... but God never lets go... even in the deepest darkness.

"The darkness is my closest friend." Psalm 88:18b NIV

Rob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Some children of light have been decieved and walk in darkness for a time.In this there is judgement... but God never lets go... even in the deepest darkness.

YES.....they call that backsliding. And yes you pay a price for it as in all sin.....but we are not perfect, not yet that is.:thumbsup:

 

[InTheLight]

YES.....they call that backsliding.

Seems we are discussing Lordship Salvation and Calvinism (again). Generally speaking Calvinists don't believe in the term "backsliding". To them, it is God's proof someone was never saved to begin with.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

But yet it's impossible for one to look at salvation and say…."nahhhh, rather not".

 

[percho]

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Romans 8:19

Will we sin anymore after that takes place?

Is, For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God., relative to? > Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Luke 20:36 Thus. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:23

Maybe it is the body that needs to be born again before we can be sin free.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Romans 7:24

 

[Iconoclast]

In other words, you don't believe in "Sola Gratia" or else you believe the individual in question was ever saved in the 1st place.

Grace alone is good but if this grace is given to a person it results in delivering the person from their sins....mt1:21....they do not continue on as if the Spirit has not regenerated and converted them.There is a new master and it is n o longer sin....there cannot be a disconnect between grace for justification and for sanctification

 

[JonC]

Just because we are forgiven does not make us perfect persons, we still remain monsters in comparison to a Holy YHWH.

We are commanded to be holy as God is holy. We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ (granted, a righteous that is not our own). If the gospel is true then we are not the people post-salvation that we were pre-salvation. There is no life without birth and there is no conversion to Christ without regeneration. Christians are not spiritually still-born. Too often regeneration in conversion is minimized. We are not – by nature – sinners after we are saved. We sin, but we are freed from Sin. We were sinners, but now we are children of God.

It is not a matter of the sin being habitual. It is a matter of repentance and regeneration. It is a matter of the sufficiency of Christ. We are freed from Sin. As such Sin is not the defining factor in our lives. I may lie, but that does not make me a “liar” in terms being mastered by Sin. I understand that secularly it does make me a liar, but for the child of God, spiritually it does not.

So I understand and appreciate your point. My apprehension is equating the lost with the saved, essentially in spirit. We were on the same ground with the lost. But now we are a holy, sanctified people. It is not us, but Christ. But at the same time we are regenerated, re-born, and alive where as those outside of Christ are dead in their sin. What God has made holy we shouldn't refer to as common.

 

[quantumfaith]

We are commanded to be holy as God is holy. We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ (granted, a righteous that is not our own). If the gospel is true then we are not the people post-salvation that we were pre-salvation. There is no life without birth and there is no conversion to Christ without regeneration. Christians are not spiritually still-born. Too often regeneration in conversion is minimized. We are not – by nature – sinners after we are saved. We sin, but we are freed from Sin. We were sinners, but now we are children of God.

It is not a matter of the sin being habitual. It is a matter of repentance and regeneration. It is a matter of the sufficiency of Christ. We are freed from Sin. As such Sin is not the defining factor in our lives. I may lie, but that does not make me a “liar” in terms being mastered by Sin. I understand that secularly it does make me a liar, but for the child of God, spiritually it does not.

So I understand and appreciate your point. My apprehension is equating the lost with the saved, essentially in spirit. We were on the same ground with the lost. But now we are a holy, sanctified people. It is not us, but Christ. But at the same time we are regenerated, re-born, and alive where as those outside of Christ are dead in their sin. What God has made holy we shouldn't refer to as common.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Robert William]

We are commanded to be holy as God is holy. We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ (granted, a righteous that is not our own). If the gospel is true then we are not the people post-salvation that we were pre-salvation. There is no life without birth and there is no conversion to Christ without regeneration. Christians are not spiritually still-born. Too often regeneration in conversion is minimized. We are not – by nature – sinners after we are saved. We sin, but we are freed from Sin. We were sinners, but now we are children of God.

It is not a matter of the sin being habitual. It is a matter of repentance and regeneration. It is a matter of the sufficiency of Christ. We are freed from Sin. As such Sin is not the defining factor in our lives. I may lie, but that does not make me a “liar” in terms being mastered by Sin. I understand that secularly it does make me a liar, but for the child of God, spiritually it does not.

So I understand and appreciate your point. My apprehension is equating the lost with the saved, essentially in spirit. We were on the same ground with the lost. But now we are a holy, sanctified people. It is not us, but Christ. But at the same time we are regenerated, re-born, and alive where as those outside of Christ are dead in their sin. What God has made holy we shouldn't refer to as common.

The beloved Apostle Paul explains it better than I can in the following scriptures.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Seems we are discussing Lordship Salvation and Calvinism (again). Generally speaking Calvinists don't believe in the term "backsliding". To them, it is God's proof someone was never saved to begin with.

yea really? I got the term from a well noted Calvinist......George Whitefield. Im referencing his sermon, " The Method of Grace"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The beloved Apostle Paul explains it better than I can in the following scriptures.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

thanks.....you beat me to it:thumbsup:

 

[JonC]

The beloved Apostle Paul explains it better than I can in the following scriptures.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Don't stop there.

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. Romans 8:1-9

 

[Iconoclast]

Don't stop there.

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. Romans 8:1-9

:thumbs::applause:

 

[percho]

The beloved Apostle Paul explains it better than I can in the following scriptures.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Did the above verses 7-24, apply to Adam at the moment of Genesis 2:7?

Was Adam at the moment of Gen. 2:7 a part of the following creation? For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Rom 8:20 NKJV

Is not the hope spoken of in that verse not also spoken of in Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Was this hope not predetermined before Adam of Genesis 2:7 was created. See 1 Peter 18-20, because the creation would be subjected to futility at the moment of creation?

 

[Robert William]

Did the above verses 7-24, apply to Adam at the moment of Genesis 2:7?

Was Adam at the moment of Gen. 2:7 a part of the following creation? For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Rom 8:20 NKJV

Is not the hope spoken of in that verse not also spoken of in Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Was this hope not predetermined before Adam of Genesis 2:7 was created. See 1 Peter 18-20, because the creation would be subjected to futility at the moment of creation?

I couldn't find your 1 Peter chapter, however I believe the futility is all after the fall, not before.

 

[percho]

I couldn't find your 1 Peter chapter, however I believe the futility is all after the fall, not before.

Sorry about that Chapter 1.

Let's say Adam by his free will sinned, then he willingly subjected himself to futility, where as Romans 8:20 absolutely says he did not willingly subject himself to futility. That is assuming Adam was a part of the creation.

That is the way I understand that verse.

Would you say that to be carnal is to be subjected to futility? To our knowledge, Adam never ate of the tree of life and then was cut off from eating of that tree. From his creation was it necessary for him to have eaten of the tree of life for eternal life. That is life that comes to the soul from other than being in the blood. See Lev 17:11 For the life (soul) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54