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Can a person be saved who doesn't believe in eternal security?
- Thread starter sanderson1769
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Rv:17:14: These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen , AND FAITHFUL .
Rv:2:10: Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH, and I will give thee a crown of life.
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Mt:24:45: Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mt:25:21: His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
1Tm:3:11: Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Lk:12:42: And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Ti:1:6: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Lk:16:10: He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
Lk:16:11: If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
Lk:16:12: And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
Lk:19:17: And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
1Cor:4:2: Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
Rv:2:10: Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH, and I will give thee a crown of life.
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Mt:24:45: Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mt:25:21: His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
1Tm:3:11: Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Lk:12:42: And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Ti:1:6: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Lk:16:10: He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
Lk:16:11: If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
Lk:16:12: And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
Lk:19:17: And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
1Cor:4:2: Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
"He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the son hath not life."
The answer can't get much clearer than that.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]and so the question is, who has the Son?
Rom:8:9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
EXPLANATION:
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Well even though I believe on Christ I'm not going to heaven anyway according to mman because I wasn't baptised in or go to a CoC. I'm not going to heaven according to BobRyan because I keep a Sunday sabbath, oh but Bob that doesn't matter because my soul isn't eternal huh? According to Pentacostals, I'm not going to heaven because I haven't spoken in tounges. I firmly believe that the God I worship will be faithful to me and I with Him. Faith in Christ and Christ alone. If you are TRULY saved you have to worry about zero anything and good works WILL be done. I'm not going to heaven because I was baptised a certain way in a certain place, because I worship on one day and not antoher or because I spoke in tounges or anything at all. I'm saved because of God's mercy, grace, and forgiveness, and FAITH in His promises. You have to boil it all down to the bare essentials, WHO saved you, you or Christ?
Was Saul Saved on the road to Damascus or on a street called straight?
Was Saul with his guards or with Annanias When He was saved?
IN Acts 19, Were the Peolple saved when Paul found them?
If the 120 on the Day of Pentecost had died the night before Pentecost would they have gone to Heaven or would they have gone to hell?
Hard question, eh? Might as well throw in a few other Methodists like Fanny Crosby and E. M. Bounds.
This very question evoked a torrent of silence from a certain PhD a few months ago.
Yes, we walk by faith, not by sight. But nonetheless, facts are stubborn things; and it's possible to carry an incorrect interpretation of the Bible so far that it starts looking stupid even to the one carrying it.
Which is a good thing....
Well, what I was meaning to get at is, a second work of grace means that you already have to be under grace by faith in Christ. You already trust that he's the only way to heaven. See, this is problematic, becaue if you say a second work of grace is baptism of the Holy Spirit, as evidenced by the speaking of tounges, then a whole lot of people through the history of the church are in bad shape. It was always my understanding that the reason for the signs and wonders was to make Jewish unbelievers into believers. There was no NT scripture back then. So God chose to show wonders. My thing is you don't have to speak in tounges to have the Holy Spirit, I believe you have the Holy Spirit as soon as you truly believe. Now if one has different gifts from the Holy Spirit that's another matter. But saying one has to speak in tounges for salvation is bad teaching. Our evidence today is God's Word.
Was Saul Saved on the road to Damascus or on a street called straight?
Was Saul with his guards or with Annanias When He was saved?
IN Acts 19, Were the Peolple saved when Paul found them?
If the 120 on the Day of Pentecost had died the night before Pentecost would they have gone to Heaven or would they have gone to hell? </font>[/QUOTE]Dustin i would still like to hear your answers to these questions.
i do not believe that you have to speak in tongues to be saved.
The discipes recieved the Holy Spirit when Jesus blew upon them.
Why did they have to wait for the Holy spirit of Promise and tarry in Jerusalem until they were endued with power.
I ask you again,
If anyone of the 120 on the day of Pentecost had died the night before the Day of pentecost would they have gone to heaven or to hell?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Rule #1 - you can't just make stuff up.
If you want to know the reason the BIBLE authors thought God gave Spiritual gifts read 1Cor 12 and Eph 4:1-10. You will find NO reference there to "This is only temporary - just to convince non-Jewish gentiles who should not be reading the scriptures and have no NT text to read".
Rule #2. The SAME NT authors that were WRITING in the NT were also SPEAKING in the NT. Gentiles would have the opportunity not only to READ them (as we are limited to reading their word only) but also HEARING them.
There was NO statement among ANY NT author to the effect "HEY wait a minute - SCRIPTURE is not complete yet so you can't really read or trust it until we get some more letters from John to finish it off". RATHER when we read their own words in places like Acts 17:1-11 and 2Tim 3 we find that they were presenting the ALREADY EXISTING OT text as "Scripture" that was fully sufficient to establish doctrine. We see in Acts 13 that BOTH Gentiles AND JEWS are being instructed by it!
Agreed. The Holy Spirit is key to conversion - and the new birth - that has happen EVEN if you never get one of the sign gifts in 1Cor 12.
Agreed. But that was also true 500 years before Christ AND 20 years after Christ!!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Easy! On the Road to Damascus. Paul never describes himself as "still searching for more Christians to torment" after that Damascus road event.
Yes!
As was John the baptizer and ALL in Heb 11!
Notice that NONE of the disciples were baptized by anything but the Baptism of John the baptizer.
Heaven - as is the case of all the OT saints listed in Heb 11.
Anything else?
In Christ,
Bob
I strongly believe in eternal security OSAS. Now to answer the question can a person be saved without believing in eternal security? While I have wrestled with this question many times I am still not able to give a definitive answer. But one thing I can say about people who believe in eternal security is that they make great witnesses. A Person who does not believe in eternal ecurity can never offer any assurance to a new convert or as we that witness often like to say, they can not(the person who doesn't believe in eternal security) seal the deal!!!
Easy! On the Road to Damascus. Paul never describes himself as "still searching for more Christians to torment" after that Damascus road event.
Yes!
As was John the baptizer and ALL in Heb 11!
Notice that NONE of the disciples were baptized by anything but the Baptism of John the baptizer.
Heaven - as is the case of all the OT saints listed in Heb 11.
Anything else?
In Christ,
Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Could this mean that there is more than Salvation for believers?
BobRyan: I wasn't making stuff up, now I may have been a little off on my guess but I wasn't making anything up.
and atestring: I just don't know.
I'm not a theology major or anything, maybe I just need to brush up on Acts.
my thing was just to say that speaking in tounges is NOT necessary for salvation, I happen to think it's bad doctrine.
and atestring: I just don't know.
I'm not a theology major or anything, maybe I just need to brush up on Acts.
my thing was just to say that speaking in tounges is NOT necessary for salvation, I happen to think it's bad doctrine.
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