Can a person loose salvation or Once saved always saved?

[J. Jump]

So a person can accept Jesus as their personal savior and then a year later start cheating on his wife, smoking pot, searching for women online, go to strip clubs, beat his wife, ext. ext..

Unfortunately that is exactly what can happen, and many times does happen, because a person is not discipled. If you don't teach babies to do right and what is right they do not have to be taught to do wrong and will do wrong.

We forget that when a person becomes a Christian they are a baby and must be taught, nutured, developed, discipled. If that doesn't happen then you are going to have a messed up Christian, not a non-Christian. Just because they are not discipled properly and return to their former lifestyle doesn't negate their faith in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God on their behalf.

Again this is a one-time event, not a linear event.

and most of you feell that he wouldnt have to repent for all those sins!!!

Absolutely he would have to repent of those sins. If not there are severe consequences! This exposes the false teaching of some in Christendom that every saved individual is okay and God will not judge them or condemn them after they have been saved. God WILL NOT be mocked. If you sow to the flesh as a saved individual you WILL reap corruption.

Thank our AWESOME God though that if we die to self and sow to the Spirit we will reap LIFE!

Repentance comes after salvation and deals with our walk with the Spirit.

 

[Blammo]

Knowing God and rightly deciphering His truth is an all-important undertaking in the keeping of one’s soul before the LORD. Lack of knowledge is a deliberate choice and so is knowing His Word. Misunderstanding God, by not choosing to gain the understanding of His Word, can have eternal consequences.

For example, the Scriptures above have revealed that the ultra popular doctrine of ‘once saved, always saved’ (OSAS) is a lie at best. The myth of OSAS robs from the believer the fear of God. This lie of lawlessness fosters rebellion and gives way to sin, the enemy, and complacency. This is exactly what it did the first time it was told - by Satan. Adam and Eve proceeded to sin against God when they believed this Lie of the Ages (Gen. 2:17; 3:4). It is the "ye shall not surely die" lie (Gen. 3:4). Beloved, we must avoid this error at all cost. It could cost one his eternal soul.

Read the first five chapters of Galations before you skip to chapter 6. If scripture ever speaks of one falling from grace, this is it. Tell me, what is falling from grace according to this verse?

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I realize we are not to sin, but if we do:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

We have liberty:

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

We are not to abuse it:

Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

We can know we HAVE eternal life:

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Is eternal life eternal if it can end? (second death)

However, we should examine ourselves:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[TaliOrlando]

Unfortunately that is exactly what can happen, and many times does happen, because a person is not discipled. If you don't teach babies to do right and what is right they do not have to be taught to do wrong and will do wrong.

We forget that when a person becomes a Christian they are a baby and must be taught, nutured, developed, discipled. If that doesn't happen then you are going to have a messed up Christian, not a non-Christian. Just because they are not discipled properly and return to their former lifestyle doesn't negate their faith in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God on their behalf.

Again this is a one-time event, not a linear event.



Absolutely he would have to repent of those sins. If not there are severe consequences! This exposes the false teaching of some in Christendom that every saved individual is okay and God will not judge them or condemn them after they have been saved. God WILL NOT be mocked. If you sow to the flesh as a saved individual you WILL reap corruption.

Thank our AWESOME God though that if we die to self and sow to the Spirit we will reap LIFE!

Repentance comes after salvation and deals with our walk with the Spirit.

Thanks!!! Why do some believe we dont have to repent....

 

[DHK]

Thanks!!! Why do some believe we dont have to repent....

Repentance is part and parcel of salvation.
Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved. When I believe I will repent. Repentance is an about face. It is turning from a sinful way of life and rebellion from God, to an obedient attitude toward God and a life of submission to him. The Bible speaks of repentance toward God. I repent of my past life of sin, and repent toward my future life with God.
To repent of all my sins is a misnomer. I can't possibly sit down and repent of all my sins--that is try to remember every single sin that I have committed in my life and then confess them and repent of them all one by one. That is an impossible task. I repent of my sinful way of life. I repent toward God. It is change of attitude in respect to God. I once was rebellious toward him; I now will be obedient toward him. That is repentance.
DHK

 

[MorganT]

Eph 1:13 You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in him you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

If the holy spirit is sealed within you when you are saved in order to lose that then God would have to break the seal. I dont think that man is capable of breaking a seal that God has made, do you? If you lose your salvation then you lose the Holy Spirit and that would mean there would be nothing there to convict you of your wrong doings. Why would God give you the gift of the Holy Spirit when you are saved and then take it away and then you might come back later in life would you have to be saved all over again because the only way to receive the Holy Spirit is to get saved. The logic is not there that the Holy spirit would leave you and therefore once you are truly saved then the Holy spirit is with you until the end, he is sealed in you.

 

[bapmom]

Tali,

it seems that perhaps you have equated "repentance" with "salvation". The two terms are not interchangeable. After all, God is said to have "repented" of things as well.....and we know that He was not in the process of gaining salvation...right?

Christians are also told to repent, but this does not imply that the Christian had lost their salvation at any point.

The thing that is a myth about OSAS is that it teaches you can live like the Devil and nothing will happen to you. OSAS does NOT teach this. As someone else pointed out, God will not put up with His children sinning and living like the world. He will chasten those who are His. However, the fact that He DOES chasten His children lends credence to OSAS as well. Otherwise, why chasten those who aren't even His anymore?

 

[Blammo]

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If a saved person sins, and loses their salvation, does the Comforter go to hell with them?

 

[DHK]

Tali,
The thing that is a myth about OSAS is that it teaches you can live like the Devil and nothing will happen to you. OSAS does NOT teach this. As someone else pointed out, God will not put up with His children sinning and living like the world. He will chasten those who are His. However, the fact that He DOES chasten His children lends credence to OSAS as well. Otherwise, why chasten those who aren't even His anymore?

This is a lie, a complete misunderstanding of Scripture, and of salvation.
1. OSAS is not a myth. It is solid scriptural teaching.
2. It does, nor ever has taught that one can live like the devil. That in itself is a slanderous statement.
3. If, as Bapmon suggests that one can lose their salvation, then that makes Christ a liar.
It is Christ that said:

John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

"I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish."
There are many such verses in the Bible. Romans 6:23 says "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." "For by grace are ye saved through faith. it is the gift of God
It is very cruel to take away a gift. Ask a child if his or her father took away their birthday gift how happy they would be. Once a gift is given it is permanently given. It is not taken away.
Secodly it is the gift of eternal life.
Eternal means exactly what it says--eternal--forever and ever.
If it were to end at any time then it would only be eternal and Jesus Christ would be found to be a liar. So who are we to believe? The Bible or Bapmon. I know where my choice lies.
DHK

 

[Brother Bob]

1 John, chapter 3
"9": Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

For some reason I believe a Christian is a "new creature", you all can believe what you want.

I also believe this:
1 Peter, chapter 1

"5": Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[gekko]

DHK.... you said that "one must repent of their sins - an impossible task BTW"

the only time someone can't repent of their sins is if they dont understand the consequences and if they dont understand the moral law.

the Holy spirit works repentance through us.

but repentance in and of itself is not an impossible task.

http://podcast.wayofthemasterradio.com/audio/podcasts/0806/WOTMR-08-24-06-Hour2.mp3 --- its a few minutes in.

 

[DHK]

DHK.... you said that "one must repent of their sins - an impossible task BTW"

the only time someone can't repent of their sins is if they dont understand the consequences and if they dont understand the moral law.

the Holy spirit works repentance through us.

but repentance in and of itself is not an impossible task.

http://podcast.wayofthemasterradio.com/audio/podcasts/0806/WOTMR-08-24-06-Hour2.mp3 --- its a few minutes in.

I am speaking of an unsaved person coming to Christ. Think of it. Can you remember every sin you have ever committed, let alone repent of them. Be reasonable. This is a fallacy that most evangelicals fall into. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to repent of all our sins. Provide your proof.
DHK

 

[Brother Bob]

You don't have to remember every sin you ever committed.
Repentance is a "Godly Sorrow", in other words to become sorry you sinned against God and unless a person does that they will never see what Heaven looks like. A "Godly Sorrow" is to be sorrow for every sin you ever committed.

Now, Repentance or "Godly Sorrow" is required at the hands of ALL men, and God don't require something we can't do.

 

[DHK]

You don't have to remember every sin you ever committed.
Repentance is a "Godly Sorrow", in other words to become sorry you sinned against God and unless a person does that they will never see what Heaven looks like. A "Godly Sorrow" is to be sorrow for every sin you ever committed.

Now, Repentance or "Godly Sorrow" is required at the hands of ALL men, and God don't require something we can't do.

"Sorry" to disagree Bob. Repentance is not feeling sorry for your sins. Judas did that, and went out and hung himself. Repentance is a change of attitude with respect toward God. It is a turn around. Once my attitude toward God was rebellious; now it is in submission to Him. That is repentance. It is repentance toward God. It is a change of attituded in respect toward God. It is not sorrow or feeling sorry.
DHK

 

[EdSutton]

Where does the Bible say that we must "repent of our sins"? This is a mistaken theology. Nowhere does the Bible teach that one must repent of their sins--an impossible task, BTW.
Once saved we are always saved, that is true, but it does not give anyone a licence to sin. Once saved, one will have or ought to have, the desire to live a more holy life, not a carnal life. For the carnal man cannot please God.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Thank you, DHK. :thumbsup: :applause: I have made the statement several times on the BB that "Repent of/from your sin(s)" is a statement never found in Scripture, at least in the KJV, RV, or ASV. (I don't possess any concordance that covers any oither version.) BTW, I agree with every word in your post, as far as I can tell. Well, except for the phrase translated "God forbid!" which is an old English idiom (but I'm not living in Old England) for the strongest negative, I realize, but the word God (theos) does not occur in the text. I prefer "Certainly not!" (NKJV); "Absolutely not!" (HCSB); "By no means!" (ESV, NIV); or a couple that are even closer to the literal renderings- "Let it not be!" (YLT); " or my personal favorite, here "May it never be!" (NASB). :thumbsup:

Ed

 

[gekko]

repentance is a turning away from sin.... and towards God.

repentance is that. and it is also Godly sorrow. provide your proof that it is not Godly sorrow.

repentance is not horizontal. it is vertical. i never said repentance is repenting of all sins. all KNOWN sins maybe. but i dont know about that.

did you even take the time to listen to the link i provided? or are you too stuck up and stuborn in your ways not to.

 

[gekko]

to answer the OP. no. ya can't lost your faith.

then hebrews 6 comes into play.

 

[EdSutton]

This is a lie, a complete misunderstanding of Scripture, and of salvation.
1. OSAS is not a myth. It is solid scriptural teaching.
2. It does, nor ever has taught that one can live like the devil. That in itself is a slanderous statement.
3. If, as Bapmon suggests that one can lose their salvation, then that makes Christ a liar.
It is Christ that said:

John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

"I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish."
There are many such verses in the Bible. Romans 6:23 says "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." "For by grace are ye saved through faith. it is the gift of God
It is very cruel to take away a gift. Ask a child if his or her father took away their birthday gift how happy they would be. Once a gift is given it is permanently given. It is not taken away.
Secodly it is the gift of eternal life.
Eternal means exactly what it says--eternal--forever and ever.
If it were to end at any time then it would only be eternal and Jesus Christ would be found to be a liar. So who are we to believe? The Bible or Bapmon. I know where my choice lies.
DHK

DHK, I believe you misread this post from Bapmom. I do not think she was suggesting that one could lose their salvation but that thy could not. The teaching that one can is the myth that she was referring to, here. Her wording does leave a bit to be desired, but not what she is claiming. Please reread the post #26. Thanks,

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

"Sorry" to disagree Bob. Repentance is not feeling sorry for your sins

Let me change it a little DHK;

2 Corinthians, chapter 7

"10": For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

The end result of a Godly Sorrow is repentance according to this Scripture.

Repentance is a change of attitude with respect toward God.

I think Judas did this also DHK; It was just too late, a man can go to far and have his heart seared with a hot iron and there is no repentance for him. I don't think Judas couldn't repent for he was the devil from the beginning.

 

[DHK]

DHK, I believe you misread this post from Bapmom. I do not think she was suggesting that one could lose their salvation but that thy could not. The teaching that one can is the myth that she was referring to, here. Her wording does leave a bit to be desired, but not what she is claiming. Please reread the post #26. Thanks,

Ed

You are so right Ed.
My apologies Bapmom. I need to take time and read posts more carefully.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Let me change it a little DHK;

2 Corinthians, chapter 7

"10": For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

The end result of a Godly Sorrow is repentance according to this Scripture.


I think Judas did this also DHK; It was just too late, a man can go to far and have his heart seared with a hot iron and there is not repentance for him. I don't think Judas could repent for he was the devil from the beginning.

That is right. Godly sorrow worketh repentance. The result is repentance. But the Godly sorrow is not the repentance. It only leads to that direction. They are not the same thing. Sorrow does not equal repentance.
DHK