Can anyone please explain this passage?

[HankD]

Amazing, you qualify me with a job interview then come back with the lamest of platitudes.

So how does anyone know if they "walk the walk"?

As you can probably guess I have a theory, but you don't have to wait until Judgment Day to find out.

Read the Scriptures and discern what it plainly states:

I see this verse as a warning. It is a prophesy. "...in that day" many will call my Name like they know Me, but I will say I never knew you. Then He says why He never knew you. It's because you worked/practiced "iniquity".

So the logical thing to do is define "iniquity".

STRONGS NT 458: ἀνομία
ἀνομία, -ας, ἡ, (ἄνομος);
1. properly, the condition of one without law — either because ignorant of it, or because violating it.
2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness:

So Messiah never knew those who "do not practice the law/torah".

Case and point:
Matt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Therefore unless we are continually keeping the 613 commandments then we do not have life.

That starts with circumcision.

 

[GoodTidings]

Thanks for responding.

I guess the question is what is "iniquity" and how can people who obviously believe they "know the Lord" be so deceived?

Iniquity is the evil, crooked, perverse moral nature that exists within human beings.

Notice that their appeal was to their works, not the grace of God. They stand before the Lord trying to point to the good things that they had done.

Many people, people who are sitting in churches every Sunday believe they are Christians for reasons that have nothing to do with Jesus. They are counting on their own good behavior, or church attendance, or whatever. They participate in the external Christian community but have not embraced Jesus and do not know Him. They mistake their own merit and religiosity for knowing Jesus. They think they know Him on the grounds of their participation in the Christian "religion" and miss out on the actual relationship with the Person of Jesus Christ.

 

[Rob_BW]

You lost at context not being applicable.

 

[GoodTidings]

1. No
2. No (not sure what that is but there are 3 separate Beings)
3. Sure, but I prefer Ahashua HaMashiach and He is coming back again

There is one God (being) but three separate Persons. That is a mystery. It doesn't make sense to us and it isn't supposed to make sense to us. The Trinity is one of those things about God that is currently beyond our understanding because there is nothing in our experience that serves as a point of reference for it. God is beyond our ability to explain Him. He transcends our understanding and the Trinity is one of those things that reminds us that God is unfathomable.

In addition, there is no such thing as "Ahashua." That is a made up word/name. It's kind of like some of those in the Yahwist cult that make up the name, "Yahushua." Neither words/names exist in the Hebrew language. Jesus' Hebrew name is Y'shua and means Salvation. Jesus/Y'shua is the eternally existing Son of God who existed in the dateless eternal past. He is not created, but is God and has always existed without beginning or end.

 

[HankD]

Of the 613 commandments of HaTorah one to two hundred mitzvoth require the Temple in Jerusalem to be standing and active along with the levitical priesthood maintaining the temple enforcing the Torah.

In AD70 the Temple was destroyed and the levitical priesthood murdered.

Biblical Judaism ended in that year. The Torah can no longer be kept every precept.

Break one break them all.

 

[HankD]

Trinitarianism took about 300 years to codify but resulted in a very simplistic formula which is the summation of the Council of Nicaea.

God is three distinct persons in one divine essence.

 

[Torah1st]

If you are saying that Jesus means the Torah, there are 613 commandments - mitzvoth - which comprise the Law.

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Break one, break them all.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

And incurs a curse:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You have 2 things going here. James 2:10 is a statement of fact. Yes if you broke one of the commandments, you broke them all. But Messiah kept the law perfectly and HIS righteousness is imputed to us. We have the righteousness of Messiah. If we sin we confess our sin and AHYH is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1John 1:8) So...how is this still applicable.

Galatians

So in Galatians there is a struggle between those who follow the “oral traditions/works of the law” and those who Paul is converting to sole adherence to the written Torah having The Spirit as your guide just as Ahashua guided the disciples during His time here. Paul is not preaching a new religion, but returning to Torah observance without the elder’s added traditions. Just as John states:

1 John 2:7 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word (Torah) which ye have heard from the beginning.

Lost in Translation: Aramaic text/Greek translation

So what is lost on us as 21st century observers is the full story that is hidden in the Aramaic texts. The texts where Paul seemingly rejects “the law” are actually Paul’s rejection of “Oral Traditions”.

Galatians 2:16 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the “works of the law”, but by the faith of Ahashua HaMaschiach, even we have believed in Ahashua HaMaschiach, that we might be justified by the faith of HaMaschiach, and not by the “works of the law”: for by the “works of the law” shall no flesh be justified.

With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls we know that by “works of the law” Paul is referring to “Ma ‘ase HaTorah” aka the “oral law”.

Lost in Translation: The Hidden Oral Law

So what exactly is the Oral Law and why didn’t I/we know about it?

Briefly, the Oral Law is a commentary on the written Torah; it is comprised of 4 elements: customs (minhagim), works (ma’asim), prohibitions (halachot) and decrees (takanot). I did not know about it because I did not have a Jewish upbringing (presumably the same is the case for you). Oral Law is not taught in seminary so christian pastors are not aware of it either.

Halachot “Laws derived directly from manipulated interpretation of Scripture (a midrash) or Rabbinic logic that oftentimes uses a proprietary series of filters from one or more of the many interpretation rules built on the seven rules of Hillel.” Pharisaic interpretations of Torah made through midrash

Minhagim “Customs are traditions enacted as law by acceptance. This principle is built on the Rabbinic axiom, “Minhag Yisrael torah hi” (a custom in Israel is law). An example of a custom that has become a law is “Wearing a Kippah (Yarmulke)”. Traditions that become law by acceptance

Takanot “Decrees of the rabbis, invented out of thin air, with no Scriptural justification. Simply, new religious laws framed with the authority of the oral law; an unabashed violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32. You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of AHYH your Eloah which I command you. New laws added to the written Torah w/ no Scriptural justification

Ma’asim “These are Rabbinic precedents justifying how a tradition should be observed. The ma’asim (works) were derived from stories, incidents, and actions of Rabbis, not Scripture, making the ma’asim a source for new laws. Ma’asim often led to Enactments and Decrees that become Law in all Israel.” Rabbinic precedents that lead to Takanot1

 

[HankD]

You have 2 things going here. James 2:10 is a statement of fact. Yes if you broke one of the commandments, you broke them all. But Messiah kept the law perfectly and HIS righteousness is imputed to us. We have the righteousness of Messiah. If we sin we confess our sin and AHYH is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1John 1:8) So...how is this still applicable.

Galatians

So in Galatians there is a struggle between those who follow the “oral traditions/works of the law” and those who Paul is converting to sole adherence to the written Torah having The Spirit as your guide just as Ahashua guided the disciples during His time here. Paul is not preaching a new religion, but returning to Torah observance without the elder’s added traditions. Just as John states:

1 John 2:7 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word (Torah) which ye have heard from the beginning.

Lost in Translation: Aramaic text/Greek translation

So what is lost on us as 21st century observers is the full story that is hidden in the Aramaic texts. The texts where Paul seemingly rejects “the law” are actually Paul’s rejection of “Oral Traditions”.

Galatians 2:16 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the “works of the law”, but by the faith of Ahashua HaMaschiach, even we have believed in Ahashua HaMaschiach, that we might be justified by the faith of HaMaschiach, and not by the “works of the law”: for by the “works of the law” shall no flesh be justified.

With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls we know that by “works of the law” Paul is referring to “Ma ‘ase HaTorah” aka the “oral law”.

Lost in Translation: The Hidden Oral Law

So what exactly is the Oral Law and why didn’t I/we know about it?

Briefly, the Oral Law is a commentary on the written Torah; it is comprised of 4 elements: customs (minhagim), works (ma’asim), prohibitions (halachot) and decrees (takanot). I did not know about it because I did not have a Jewish upbringing (presumably the same is the case for you). Oral Law is not taught in seminary so christian pastors are not aware of it either.

Halachot “Laws derived directly from manipulated interpretation of Scripture (a midrash) or Rabbinic logic that oftentimes uses a proprietary series of filters from one or more of the many interpretation rules built on the seven rules of Hillel.” Pharisaic interpretations of Torah made through midrash

Minhagim “Customs are traditions enacted as law by acceptance. This principle is built on the Rabbinic axiom, “Minhag Yisrael torah hi” (a custom in Israel is law). An example of a custom that has become a law is “Wearing a Kippah (Yarmulke)”. Traditions that become law by acceptance

Takanot “Decrees of the rabbis, invented out of thin air, with no Scriptural justification. Simply, new religious laws framed with the authority of the oral law; an unabashed violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32. You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of AHYH your Eloah which I command you. New laws added to the written Torah w/ no Scriptural justification

Ma’asim “These are Rabbinic precedents justifying how a tradition should be observed. The ma’asim (works) were derived from stories, incidents, and actions of Rabbis, not Scripture, making the ma’asim a source for new laws. Ma’asim often led to Enactments and Decrees that become Law in all Israel.” Rabbinic precedents that lead to Takanot1

The 613 mitzvoth are taken directly from the scripture without anything of "tradition".
Nowhere in the scripture is the law divided up into parts. It is one entity.

You asked if Jesus was lying and made the pronouncement that what He said did not depend on context but then you yourself later JUMPED out of CONTEXT by further defining what he apparently meant by quoting James John and Paul. Confusing sir.

But apart from that if Jesus did not lie and what He said was without context consideration then keeping the commandments BEGINS with circumcision as was His example,

Would you say that you (if you are male) and I and all believers in Messiah should start there?

 

[Torah1st]

Iniquity is the evil, crooked, perverse moral nature that exists within human beings.

Notice that their appeal was to their works, not the grace of God. They stand before the Lord trying to point to the good things that they had done.

Many people, people who are sitting in churches every Sunday believe they are Christians for reasons that have nothing to do with Jesus. They are counting on their own good behavior, or church attendance, or whatever. They participate in the external Christian community but have not embraced Jesus and do not know Him. They mistake their own merit and religiosity for knowing Jesus. They think they know Him on the grounds of their participation in the Christian "religion" and miss out on the actual relationship with the Person of Jesus Christ.

Now see, all of that pablum really sounds religious and authoritative but what are you really saying, "jack squat". So my whole eternal destiny is based on something as capricious "the actual relationship with the Person of Jesus Christ". How do "you", Joe "Bags of Air" know that you have a personal relationship? Do you get in touch with your feelings? Do you just know? Those that said "Lord, Lord" just knew too but they are now "departed". How are you different from them, your eternity is based on how you feel your relationship is, Correct?

As I said before Matt 7:21-23 is a warning.

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Not talk in platitudes or get in touch with your feelings.

Mat 15:14 And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

How "touchy-feely" does that sound?

 

[Torah1st]

The 613 mitzvoth are taken directly from the scripture without anything of "tradition".
Nowhere in the scripture is the law divided up into parts. It is one entity.

You asked if Jesus was lying and made the pronouncement that what He said did not depend on context but then you yourself later JUMPED out of CONTEXT by further defining what he apparently meant by quoting James John and Paul. Confusing sir.

But apart from that if Jesus did not lie and what He said was without context consideration then keeping the commandments BEGINS with circumcision as was His example,

Would you say that you (if you are male) and I and all believers in Messiah should start there?

Yes, the written 613 commandments are listed in Scripture. In Pharisaic thought the oral law and written law together were the Law of Moses they were both binding according to them:

Mat 23:2-5 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4- For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

So the commentary to the written Scriptures is the oral law/tradition and that is the problem that Messiah came back to solve. The oral law had 1,500 rules alone on how to keep the Sabbath. The "oral law" is written is in separate books called the misnah. I don't understand your point.

Just because you did not know that the struggle between Messiah and the Pharisees was the oral traditions does not mean I am in error.

Mat 22; 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

You are making this so complicated. Love the Creator, Love your neighbor. That is the 613 commandments and the 10 commandments. They fit into 1 of the 2 categories.

After you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart AHYH raised Ahashua from the dead you are redeemed. If you want to proclaim that by being circumcised that is your choice but not a
requirement for redemption.

 

[GoodTidings]

Now see, all of that pablum really sounds religious and authoritative but what are you really saying, "jack squat".

No, it is the truth.

So my whole eternal destiny is based on something as capricious "the actual relationship with the Person of Jesus Christ". How do "you", Joe "Bags of Air" know that you have a personal relationship?

Because He lives within me in the Person of the Holy Spirit and His Spirit bears witness to my spirit that I am a child of God. Father/child is a personal relationship. He is my Savior. That's pretty personal.

Do you get in touch with your feelings? Do you just know?

It has nothing to do with feelings, at all. It has to do with His promises and the fact that He is faithful to what He says. My faith is not rooted in emotion for feeling but on the solid rock of Scripture and the finished work of the Cross wherein Jesus paid for my salvation and offers me eternal life simply by placing faith in Him.

Those that said "Lord, Lord" just knew too but they are now "departed". How are you different from them, your eternity is based on how you feel your relationship is, Correct?

No, It is not based on how I feel about it.
I am totally different than them. They appealed to their works, their own merit, their own effort. They didn't appeal to knowing Jesus or personal relationship with Him. And Jesus simply told them that He never knew them and sent them into eternal destruction.

I know I have a relationship with Jesus for three reasons. First of all, Jesus died for me. The eternal work of Jesus on the cross paid for my sins and by that, I have eternal life, right now. Eternal life isn't a thing; it's a person. Jesus is eternal life. He is the both the giver and the gift of eternal life.

Secondly, I have internal witness of the Holy Spirit who lives within me. The Holy Spirit lives within me keeping me saved and reminding that I belong to the Lord: (Rom. 8: 15-17 I John 4:13)

Third, I have the record of Scripture which says: "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1Jn 5:11-13)

So the Bible tells me that I can know, right now, that I am saved and it tells me in Eph. 1: 13 that I am sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. He not only saves me but keeps me saved.

So it is not based on feeling, but on the work of Jesus on the cross, the internal abiding presence of the Holy Spirit and the unchanging, infallible written record of Scripture. I don't have rely feelings at all, thank the Lord. Feelings are unreliable and fickle.

As I said before Matt 7:21-23 is a warning.

It is a warning to those who are relying their good works and what will happen to them in eternity if that is all they have to appeal to. Good works will not get anyone into Heaven.

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Yes, we are to keep HIS commandments. But that is not the Mosaic commandments, he is referring to. He is referring to the commandments he delivered during His earthly ministry and the New Testament clarifies that fact.

Not talk in platitudes or get in touch with your feelings.

Mat 15:14 And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

How "touchy-feely" does that sound?

Sounds like you have decided to assign false values to my previous statements because you couldn't actually respond to what I said. You assigned my words to "feelings" when feelings have nothing to do with anything I said.

 

[Torah1st]

Trinitarianism took about 300 years to codify but resulted in a very simplistic formula which is the summation of the Council of Nicaea.

God is three distinct persons in one divine essence.

I would not adhere to anything that came out of the Council of Nicaea

 

[Torah1st]

Of the 613 commandments of HaTorah one to two hundred mitzvoth require the Temple in Jerusalem to be standing and active along with the levitical priesthood maintaining the temple enforcing the Torah.

In AD70 the Temple was destroyed and the levitical priesthood murdered.

Biblical Judaism ended in that year. The Torah can no longer be kept every precept.

Break one break them all.

Messiah replaced the Levitical priesthood. 1John 1:9

 

[Torah1st]

No, it is the truth.


Because He lives within me in the Person of the Holy Spirit and His Spirit bears witness to my spirit that I am a child of God. Father/child is a personal relationship. He is my Savior. That's pretty personal.

It has nothing to do with feelings, at all. It has to do with His promises and the fact that He is faithful to what He says. My faith is not rooted in emotion for feeling but on the solid rock of Scripture and the finished work of the Cross wherein Jesus paid for my salvation and offers me eternal life simply by placing faith in Him.

No, It is not based on how I feel about it.
I am totally different than them. They appealed to their works, their own merit, their own effort. They didn't appeal to knowing Jesus or personal relationship with Him. And Jesus simply told them that He never knew them and sent them into eternal destruction.

I know I have a relationship with Jesus for three reasons. First of all, Jesus died for me. The eternal work of Jesus on the cross paid for my sins and by that, I have eternal life, right now. Eternal life isn't a thing; it's a person. Jesus is eternal life. He is the both the giver and the gift of eternal life.

Secondly, I have internal witness of the Holy Spirit who lives within me. The Holy Spirit lives within me keeping me saved and reminding that I belong to the Lord: (Rom. 8: 15-17 I John 4:13)

Third, I have the record of Scripture which says: "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1Jn 5:11-13)

So the Bible tells me that I can know, right now, that I am saved and it tells me in Eph. 1: 13 that I am sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. He not only saves me but keeps me saved.

So it is not based on feeling, but on the work of Jesus on the cross, the internal abiding presence of the Holy Spirit and the unchanging, infallible written record of Scripture. I don't have rely feelings at all, thank the Lord. Feelings are unreliable and fickle.

It is a warning to those who are relying their good works and what will happen to them in eternity if that is all they have to appeal to. Good works will not get anyone into Heaven.

Yes, we are to keep HIS commandments. But that is not the Mosaic commandments, he is referring to. He is referring to the commandments he delivered during His earthly ministry and the New Testament clarifies that fact.



Sounds like you have decided to assign false values to my previous statements because you couldn't actually respond to what I said. You assigned my words to "feelings" when feelings have nothing to do with anything I said.

You know what is amazing to me. Everybody's hero is Paul. But they never do what he did. When he got chasten on the Damacus road, he did not argue or rationalize he just said "What wilt thou have me to do?".

He was glad he found the Truth and moved on

 

[Torah1st]

You know what is amazing to me. Everybody's hero is Paul. But they never do what he did. When he got chasted on the Damacus road, he did not argue or rationalize he just said "What wilt thou have me to do?".

He was glad he found the Truth and moved on

I agree, I have the Spirit also. It is not my purpose to shake your confidence. I am only pointing out things that I have seen. My conclusions are my conclusions. I share as 1 human on this planet to another. I truly wish someone could show me I am wrong with out the mental gymnastics. But if I am right just keep the commandments and 7 feasts.

 

[kyredneck]

You know what is amazing to me. Everybody's hero is Paul. But they never do what he did. When he got chasten on the Damacus road, he did not argue or rationalize he just said "What wilt thou have me to do?".

He was glad he found the Truth and moved on

I agree, I have the Spirit also. It is not my purpose to shake your confidence. I am only pointing out things that I have seen. My conclusions are my conclusions. I share as 1 human on this planet to another. I truly wish someone could show me I am wrong with out the mental gymnastics. But if I am right just keep the commandments and 7 feasts.

Lol, talking to yourself now?...

 

[GoodTidings]

You know what is amazing to me. Everybody's hero is Paul. But they never do what he did. When he got chasten on the Damacus road, he did not argue or rationalize he just said "What wilt thou have me to do?".

He was glad he found the Truth and moved on

No, Paul is not our "hero." I simply appealed the Word of God.

Paul found the Gospel and His life was committed to the Lord and he started churches and he preached the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. He preached justification by faith alone.

Paul did not receive a commission to spread the Law of Moses. He was called to bear the Name of Jesus to the Gentiles and to Israel. Paul's life was committed to the Gospel. But he is not our "hero." He is simply a man who served the Lord faithfully in the preaching of the Gospel of salvation through Jesus alone.

 

[GoodTidings]

I agree, I have the Spirit also. It is not my purpose to shake your confidence. I am only pointing out things that I have seen. My conclusions are my conclusions. I share as 1 human on this planet to another. I truly wish someone could show me I am wrong with out the mental gymnastics. But if I am right just keep the commandments and 7 feasts.

If you want to keep the feasts and the Law of Moses, that is your business. You do what you want to do. But if you are tying those things to salvation, if you believe that you are inheriting eternal life because you are keeping the commandments and feasts, you are going to be disappointed when you stand before the Lord because you will stand before Him under the law and not under grace. If you are trusting in your Torah observance, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[HankD]

Messiah replaced the Levitical priesthood. 1John 1:9

Hmm, first you tell us the Law that Jesus referred to was without context, now you blend elements of the law with NT scripture concerning the levitical priesthood and in another post also confounding circumcision of the flesh and spiritual circumcision.

Context is not applicable, there is only the blunt Truth.

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(then you won't be deceived)

What could be simpler?

You sir are confused.

By your reasoning, if we don't need the levitical priesthood because Jesus replaced it then we don't need the earthly sabbath because Jesus replaced it with His rest.

Matthew 11
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

 

[Jesus Saves!]

John 6:29 KJVS
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.