Can CoC be considered Christian?

[DeafPosttrib]

Angus,

Look, there are about 300 different kinds of 'Baptist' organizations in America today. Why there are so many different kinds of 'Baptist' in America.

The simple reason is, divisions over the doctrine issues.

Yes, for me, I do believe many people, who are CoC, are Christians. Because, they do believe in Jesus Christ, and they do obey Christ's commands. Christians means, a person who walk life be like Christ's, well as as they are Christ's followers.

Baptists have to be careful about being judging on any religions, think they are not Christians. Only God knows their hearts.

I do believe some Lutherans are Christians, some Catholics are Christians, some Assembly of God are Christians, some Baptists are Christians.

God doesn't care what our religions are. He interests in us that we put our faith in Christ, while we are obeying Christ's commands same time.

I fear that NOT all baptists are truly saved, not the reason why they are "baptists", the reason is their practical life, they do claim that they did believe in Jesus, but they do not do practical their spiritual life. Their habits of sin life without confess or repent afterward in their life till death, their sins will be remain and and it shall bring them forth to death(James 1:15-16) means their sins would be remain in them, shall bring them to everlasting fire without confess or repentance afterward. Unless, if they finally confess or repent their sins to Christ before too late, they will be live again according Luke 15:32.

We have to be careful for being judging religions, of their salvation. Only God knows their hearts.

I am expecting that there will be many shocks at the Judgment Seat of Christ/Great White Throne that, we might thought of our loves one, who we know them well, are truly saved, but not.

So, please be careful what you saying on religions include CoC. Please respect Coc people. Let God takes care of them.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

I agree that the Mormons have a huge probem with mankind rising to the level of God - and universalism etc.

But the JWs, Catholics, Church of Christ etc - I have always considered to be "Christian" even though I have very strong differences with them on doctrine.

in Christ,

Bob

Amen, Brother -- Preach it! :thumbs:

Even 7th Day Adventists are mainline Christians today.

One is saved by Jesus, not by denominational affiliation, or dis-affiliation.

One time (probably 1989) I (A Bapatist) was on a chat line with a JW (Jehovah's Witness). We disided to agree on some statement. Here is what we agreed upon:

If you get saved, it will be by Christ Jesus.

Anyway, the CoCs have many Christian members. I could go join a Churach of Christ and have no problems worshiping with them (but my Wife is the Organist at my Local Baptist Church -- so that isn't a likely scenario).

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

SMILE! :thumbsup: You are right on them! God bless you!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

But, on JW's... no, I do not consider that they are Christians, because they deny that Jesus is 100% God.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Eric B]

For sure there are different CoC organizations but the founders of that particular denomination ( they claim not to believe in denominations) disregarded the Holy Spirit as a person in the Trinity but held to an operation. Now there are divergent groups from this who hold that the HS is a person (but not all) but have a mode view of him as in this quote from one of their websites:

The Holy Spirit is a person. One of the three modes of being in the Godhead.

Isn't this form of belief really divergent from historical Christianity and its view of the Trinity? I mean we call the JW's a cult and the Mormons a Cult we call the Oneness Pentecostals a cult. Why do the CoC not get this view? JW and Mormon's also claim the bible. What makes the CoC more palitable?

"Modes of being" does not mean the same thing as what the Oneness people or historical modalism mean. Notice, "mode of being" is in fact the definition of "Person". I remember one dictionary using "one of the modes of being of the Godhead..." as well for the "Theol." definition of the word. And the quote goes on to emphasize the personal pronouns used for the Spirit. Modalism insists "modes" are manifestations of one Person. I have never seen Campbellistic groups suggest that.

Hence, why they seemed a bit more palatable than groups labeled "cults". The apologetic anti-"cult" groups like CRI focused mainly on antitrinitarian groups. SDA's even got just a question mark; short of being labeled a cult in Kingdom of the Cults, because their acceptance of the Trinity got them almost over. Between them and CoC, they are unique in maintaining the Trinity, which is usually the first doctrine to go when a group dissents from traditional Christianity.

 

[JSM17]

ANGUS DEI WROTE:
[

QUOTE]Of course, the above was just the start; I also began questioning the multitude of Protestant Denominations.
So yourself, as a Church of Christ member, what evidence do you have to prove that your Church is the NT Church of the Apostles?

The Lord’s church is the church that He built (Matthew 16:18). It is not my church or anyone else’s church, it belongs to God. When we obey God through His word we are added to His church (Acts 2:41). We find that Christ is the author or eternal salvation to those who obey Him (Heb.5:9). Faith, repentance, confession, and baptism are the obedient acts that Christ calls all men to obey. I believe that God has made each one of these requirements for receiving the blessing that He offers through His Son. As most know on this forum I believe that scripture clearly teaches that baptism by immersion in water after one believes, repents, and confess is for or unto the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). In many ways that is the departing focus of most. To some this is heresy, yet the scripture is plain on the subject.
Church organization is clearly shown in scripture. Elders, Deacons, ministers are all scriptural, We do not claim one man as “Pastor” because the bible never teaches of one Elder, Sheppard, Overseer, or Pastor, it is always a plurality and never held by women. Our congregations are autonomous as were the N.T. congregations (Romans 16:16). They were identified as the churches in certain cities, the church in Rome, the church in Corinth.
Worship consists of biblical standards, preaching, praying, Lords Supper every first day of the week when we assemble, singing, giving as we prosper. We have no human creeds or statements of faith; we strive to speak where the bible speaks and to remain silent where the bible is silent. We do not claim ourselves as a denomination because we know that the Lord is not the author of such things, I understand that many believe we are and even some among us think that we are, but I do not. We should just strive to be Christians following Christ.

I do not see the many denominations represented throughout the world as belong to Christ unless they are doing things the way He has commanded us to do them. I am not talking about perfection, I am talking about how we conduct ourselves and the function of the congregations and the teaching that we hold to.
God has clearly taught us that we must endure this world until we go home, there is a part on man that requires His faithfulness till the end ( Rev. 2:10), if it were not so then God would not continue to warn us through His word that there is a danger of falling. This does not mean we are meriting our salvation, but it does mean that God want us to strive with a heart for Him, even though we will sin, God has allowed Christ’s blood to continue to cleanse us if we are faith to confess our sins to Him (1 John 1:7).
There is a lot more that I could say and show, in accordance to your question, but I suppose this will be enough for now. I do believe in the grace of God and I do believe it is because of Christ that I am saved, I am thankful everyday for His blessing in my life, but the only clear way to know we are saved is not by a feeling or by what we do in accordance to what we think, but by God’s word and obeying the things He has asked us to do. The Lord’s church is not divided, Christ is not divided, if Christ comes tomorrow those who teach false doctrine and follow those teaching false doctrine will not be received, that is why it is important to follow Him and not man. Christ is not the author of denominationalism; we can find no such thing in scripture. When I say church of Christ I am not talking about what people think about us I am talking about the church in which Christ died for, His church that is why Paul calls them the churches of Christ, because Christ is the head. I know that there are other out there who have obeyed the Gospel that do not claim any particular church of Christ, yet they obeyed Him and as long as they follow Him according to His teaching then they are of His church and He added them to it.

Thank you for the question I hope I have answered it for you, my goal is not to offend, yet it seems that my beliefs offend many, but it matters not if it is true.

 

[TCGreek]

Are Baptists part of the Body of Christ, the church, which Jesus is returning for?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Comment on Presberterians:

Many are chilled but few are frozen :BangHead:

 

[JSM17]

Are Baptists part of the Body of Christ, the church, which Jesus is returning for?

Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.

Are the Baptist churches teaching the docrtines of Christ and the Apostles according to scripture?

There is one body, this is unity, the arm will know what the leg is doing, if the arm and the leg do not work together and agree then there is no proper function. IF you seperate the arm from the leg the one no longer attached cannot be part of the body. Can you take all the denominations of the world and have one unified working body, some say yes, but clearly the division says no.

If you ask youself the question "Are Baptist part of the Body of Christ", you would answer "yes", as would all who claim Christ, we all think we are right, but the question is "is that possible"? Is it possible for Christ to be so divided as to be represented by the hundreds if perhaps not thousands of denominations? Faith alone does not unite people as some proclaim on this forum.

IS CHRIST DIVIDED?

 

[Allan]

Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.

Are the Baptist churches teaching the docrtines of Christ and the Apostles according to scripture?

There is one body, this is unity, the arm will know what the leg is doing, if the arm and the leg do not work together and agree then there is no proper function. IF you seperate the arm from the leg the one no longer attached cannot be part of the body. Can you take all the denominations of the world and have one unified working body, some say yes, but clearly the division says no.

If you ask youself the question "Are Baptist part of the Body of Christ", you would answer "yes", as would all who claim Christ, we all think we are right, but the question is "is that possible"? Is it possible for Christ to be so divided as to be represented by the hundreds if perhaps not thousands of denominations? Faith alone does not unite people as some proclaim on this forum.

IS CHRIST DIVIDED?

So in short short, your answer is; 'No, Baptists are not apart of the body of Christ'.
Is that a fair rendering of your position?

 

[Revmitchell]

Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.

Are the Baptist churches teaching the docrtines of Christ and the Apostles according to scripture?

There is one body, this is unity, the arm will know what the leg is doing, if the arm and the leg do not work together and agree then there is no proper function. IF you seperate the arm from the leg the one no longer attached cannot be part of the body. Can you take all the denominations of the world and have one unified working body, some say yes, but clearly the division says no.

If you ask youself the question "Are Baptist part of the Body of Christ", you would answer "yes", as would all who claim Christ, we all think we are right, but the question is "is that possible"? Is it possible for Christ to be so divided as to be represented by the hundreds if perhaps not thousands of denominations? Faith alone does not unite people as some proclaim on this forum.

IS CHRIST DIVIDED?

Again them second you stand against denominationalism then you have just divided yourself. And are now part of the problem you are so distressed about.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Thank you for the question I hope I have answered it for you, my goal is not to offend, yet it seems that my beliefs offend many, but it matters not if it is true.

You don't have to worry about offending me and I agree 100% that Christ did not desire a world of Christian Denominations and thus is unbiblical, even St. Paul wrote against such division.

We do not claim ourselves as a denomination because we know that the Lord is not the author of such things, I understand that many believe we are and even some among us think that we are, but I do not.

This issue still remains, what makes you confident that the Church of Christ is that Church Christ built? You and I would agree, Christ sent His Apostles out to build His Church as Himself (Christ) as the cornerstone. Christ promised to be with His Church until the end of the world. Christ promised the Holy Spirit to protect, guide and to remind His Church of all things and that the gates of Hell would never prevail! But, where is that Church? That's the question that drove me for 6 years.

Is there something in Holy Scripture that points to the Church of Christ? You agree there's many, many denominations all claiming to be following the Bible, yet there's still division. Since its obvious that the Church of Christ follows Holy Scripture, how do you know that what teachings you follow are the correct NT teachings of the Apostles?

The way I see this is that first we have to be awaken to the fact that denominations are in fact divisions and are not biblical. Next, we have to conclude that if Christ established a Church and promises to protect that Church and "remind that Church of all things", then that Church has to be out there somewhere.

And if Christ promised to remind His Church of all things, then He can't be reminding the Lutherans one thing and the Methodists another and the Baptists, this and the Church of Christ, that.

So, not knowing your background, what makes you confident the Church of Christ is the Church? Just curious, b/c I went on that journey and even talked with the CoC, but ended up in a different place in the end.

In XC
-

 

[Darron Steele]

Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.

Are the Baptist churches teaching the docrtines of Christ and the Apostles according to scripture?

There is one body, this is unity, the arm will know what the leg is doing, if the arm and the leg do not work together and agree then there is no proper function. IF you seperate the arm from the leg the one no longer attached cannot be part of the body. Can you take all the denominations of the world and have one unified working body, some say yes, but clearly the division says no....

Right -- the division perpetuated by factious people says `no.' Factious people insist that their prideful desires to be agreed-with be satiated, and adamantly refuse to fellowship with anyone who will not agree with them to their satisfaction.

Those of us who obey the Scriptures regarding directives for unity and against factiousness have little trouble cooperating across denominational lines. If every Christian of every church group followed those directives of Scripture, we would have one unified working body regardless of our denominations.

You know, arguments like the one you posted above would be amusing if they were not so serious and so harmful.

The Greek word translated "church" has no reference to precepts in its meanings. It always in some sense refers to a collection of people. Nothing is made `the New Testament church' by its precepts. A church is not made by precepts; it is made by people.

The thing I think is funny in a sad way is how so many mere mortals think that they decide the boundaries of the Lord's church by their decisions of whom they will fellowship and whom they are not. The idea is something like this:

Well, those people teach such-and-such. Well, we disagree but have decided not to make it a fellowship issue. Therefore, they are still in the Lord's church.

Those other people do this-or-that. I do not like that practice, and in protest against it, we will divide against those people.

Lo and behold, just like that, we have made them no longer part of the Lord's church.'​

As much as many of us would like to think we can do that, we cannot.

It is sort of like the Lord building a literal house, and some of us saying `We do not want the rest of the house. We are building a wall. There, Lord, by this wall, we have fixed up Your house so that the undesirable parts are gone.' This would be delusional. The rest of the house, as much as the deluded people might like to think otherwise, is still there.

At Matthew 16:18 Jesus Christ said "I will build My church” (NBV). He builds it; we do not. We are not consulted about its composition or its boundaries.

The church is described as "all that believed" (ASV) at Acts 2:44. He builds the church in the manner of Acts 2:47, where He was was “adding to| them day by day” (NASB|ASV).

The idea that we determine the boundaries of the Lord's church is amusing to some extent but seriously delusional. If a person is a believer on Jesus Christ, then s/he has been added by Him to His church -- period. We can like it or not, but we have no say in the matter.

All believers on Jesus Christ have been added by Him to His church. That is the way it is regardless of how we might like it. Those who refuse to accept it cannot change it. I suggest that we accept it, and work on handling that reality in biblical ways.

 

[TCGreek]

Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.

Are you saying that the Lord didn't plant the Baptists?

Are the Baptist churches teaching the docrtines of Christ and the Apostles according to scripture?

Yes indeed.

There is one body, this is unity, the arm will know what the leg is doing, if the arm and the leg do not work together and agree then there is no proper function. IF you seperate the arm from the leg the one no longer attached cannot be part of the body. Can you take all the denominations of the world and have one unified working body, some say yes, but clearly the division says no.

Again, I maintain, that despite our differences on nonessentials, all Bible-based, Spirit-filled, Christ-centered denominations are the Body of Christ in a broken world.

If you ask youself the question "Are Baptist part of the Body of Christ", you would answer "yes", as would all who claim Christ, we all think we are right, but the question is "is that possible"? Is it possible for Christ to be so divided as to be represented by the hundreds if perhaps not thousands of denominations? Faith alone does not unite people as some proclaim on this forum.

IS CHRIST DIVIDED?

Baptists and the various Bible-based denominations do not need your approval to know that they are the Body of Christ.

Doctrine precision at every point is not what makes one a part of the Body of Christ.

Faith in Christ for salvation is what makes one a part of the Body of Christ, whether Baptists, Pentecostals, and so on.

When a person comes to faith in Christ, that person is baptized by the Spirit into the One Body.

I know this is contrary to your doctrinal statements. But there you go.

Your problem is confusing unity with uniformity. You don't seem to know the difference.

Even differences already existed in the early Church on nonessentials (Rom 14-15).

 

[DHK]

So in short short, your answer is; 'No, Baptists are not apart of the body of Christ'.
Is that a fair rendering of your position?

Here is JSM17's answer to that question when put in a more personal way

DHK said: Many of the COC have said that I was not saved when I professed salvation, and some of them still say that I am not saved to this day. I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of them.
I trusted Christ as my Saviour when I was 20. But I was not baptized until 2 years after that. So answer me:

1. Was I saved when I put my faith and trust in the finished work of Christ?
2. Was I saved during the intervening years before I got baptized?
3. Was I saved when I got baptized.
4. Am I saved now?

JSM17 said:
1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No

http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1442747&postcount=146

 

[JSM17]

TCGREEK:

Are you saying that the Lord didn't plant the Baptists?

Do you read of Baptists, Methodists, so on and so on in scripture?

I read of Christians, followers of Christ wearing the name of Christ. Where in scripture does it teach that we should be called Baptist or even Lutherans?

When the seed of the word is planted in good and honest hearts it will produce Christians.

 

[Allan]

TCGREEK:


Do you read of Baptists, Methodists, so on and so on in scripture?

I read of Christians, followers of Christ wearing the name of Christ. Where in scripture does it teach that we should be called Baptist or even Lutherans?

When the seed of the word is planted in good and honest hearts it will produce Christians.

So your contention is that a person is not saved if they are a part of a church who's name simply identifies their general doctrinal views, unless it is called the Church of Christ?

 

[TCGreek]

TCGREEK:


Do you read of Baptists, Methodists, so on and so on in scripture?

I read of Christians, followers of Christ wearing the name of Christ. Where in scripture does it teach that we should be called Baptist or even Lutherans?

When the seed of the word is planted in good and honest hearts it will produce Christians.

What does what we call ourselves have to do with our inclusion in the Body of Christ?

I thought faith in Christ for salvation was sufficient?

Now you're hang up on names.

 

[JSM17]

So your contention is that a person is not saved if they are a part of a church who's name simply identifies their general doctrinal views, unless it is called the Church of Christ?

Nope, there are many out there that belong to congregations that have no denominational affiliation, who have obeyed the Gospel and follow after Christ just as He has commnded. They are part of the church that Christ died for. The church of Christ is not a title of a group, but the identification of the church that Christ built.

What does what we call ourselves have to do with our inclusion in the Body of Christ?

I thought faith in Christ for salvation was sufficient?

Now you're hang up on names

When it is not biblical it has everything to do with it, besides along with these names, diverse doctrines acompany them. I do not have a hang up with names, Jesus did not ask us to call ourselves all these different names.

You may think that faith alone is suffcient for salvation, but that is just another example of the connection to certain namrd groups that hold to thiese ideas.

 

[Darron Steele]

Nope, there are many out there that belong to congregations that have no denominational affiliation,

That is, none acknowledged.

who have obeyed the Gospel and follow after Christ just as He has commnded.

In many cases, minus the humility.

They are part of the church that Christ died for.

Those among them that are His followers, yes so.

The church of Christ is not a title of a group, but the identification of the church that Christ built.

-- and therefore the title of a group: a title which describes a group that does not remotely include all of Christ's followers, and therefore not remotely all of His church.

...I do not have a hang up with names, Jesus did not ask us to call ourselves all these different names....

He did not ask us to call ourselves ANY of these names.

There is no recorded command of Jesus from His mouth to call His church "the Church of Christ," or "the Churches of Christ," or "the Christian Churches" or "the Baptists" or "the Methodists" or "the Christians" or "the Disciples of Christ."

It is amazing hypocritical to criticize a church group for identifying itself by a name Jesus Christ did not command -- while simultaneously identifying one's own church group by another name He did not command.

You folks want to call yourselves "the Churches of Christ" that is fine. While other congregations took those names before your group formed, you got the name to stick for your group. Congratulations to your forebears, and say `thanks' that 1906 American society allowed you to name yourselves whatever you wanted. Enjoy that liberty to call yourselves "the Churches of Christ." The Baptists will call themselves Baptists. None of you do wrong in so doing.