Can Exodus 32:33 Ever Refer to Believers?

[Darrell C]

Passages like Malachi 3:16,

How is a Book of Remembrance the Book of Life?


Malachi 3:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.


Just like a false teacher to quote Scriptures they won't post because they know it won't help their demon doctrine.

Passages like Malachi 3:16, Luke 10:20, and Revelation 20:15 shows that "the Book of Life" is for those who are saved and not for any unsaved person.

And you have yet to respond to this...


Psalm 69:20-28
King James Version (KJV)

20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.

21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.

23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.

26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.

27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.

28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.


Where we see in this Messianic Psalm the enemies of Christ...

...in the Book of Life.

Secondly, it is just common sense which demands that anyone blotted out...must be in the Bool of Life.

All men are in the Book of Life, and depending on their resonse to the REvelation provided to them from God, they remain in the Book or are blotted out.

Third...

...Moses was not a born again believer.

In Revelation 20, verse 12, we read of "books", which were for the Judgement of the Righteous and unrighteous, "judged by what was written in the books".

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done"

More false teaching:


Revelation 20:12
King James Version (KJV)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


Nothing in there about "judgment for the righteous and unrighteous, just judgment of those who do not have life, but are dead.

They will die again. That is why it is called the Second Death.

Forsake your false teaching and your false, works-based gospel. It is damnable demon doctrine.


God bless.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

How is a Book of Remembrance the Book of Life?


Malachi 3:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.


Just like a false teacher to quote Scriptures they won't post because they know it won't help their demon doctrine.




And you have yet to respond to this...


Psalm 69:20-28
King James Version (KJV)

20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.

21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.

23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.

26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.

27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.

28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.


Where we see in this Messianic Psalm the enemies of Christ...

...in the Book of Life.

Secondly, it is just common sense which demands that anyone blotted out...must be in the Bool of Life.

All men are in the Book of Life, and depending on their resonse to the REvelation provided to them from God, they remain in the Book or are blotted out.

Third...

...Moses was not a born again believer.





More false teaching:


Revelation 20:12
King James Version (KJV)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


Nothing in there about "judgment for the righteous and unrighteous, just judgment of those who do not have life, but are dead.

They will die again. That is why it is called the Second Death.

Forsake your false teaching and your false, works-based gospel. It is damnable demon doctrine.


God bless.

are you are ten year old kid?

 

[Darrell C]

are you are ten year old kid?

Let me see if I understand you correctly: I am addressing your false doctrine point for point and all you can do is whine about it, and I am the one acting like a kid?

lol

Step up, Sorta Saved by Grace, and address the points. Another characteristic of the false teacher is he refuses to consider sound advice. I'm not sure what has happened in your life, but I just don't remember you being a full blown heretic in the past. What happened? Have you sinned against God and your conscience is bothering you?

Sounds to me like you are struggling with whether you are actually saved or not. You certainly haven't grasped the Gospel of Christ, but I can tell you, the religion you are engaging in now needs to stop soon before your conscious is seared to the Gospel of Christ.

If you would simply address the points made you will see who it is that has no understanding of the Word of God.

I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


God bless.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Let me see if I understand you correctly: I am addressing your false doctrine point for point and all you can do is whine about it, and I am the one acting like a kid?

lol

Step up, Sorta Saved by Grace, and address the points. Another characteristic of the false teacher is he refuses to consider sound advice. I'm not sure what has happened in your life, but I just don't remember you being a full blown heretic in the past. What happened? Have you sinned against God and your conscience is bothering you?

Sounds to me like you are struggling with whether you are actually saved or not. You certainly haven't grasped the Gospel of Christ, but I can tell you, the religion you are engaging in now needs to stop soon before your conscious is seared to the Gospel of Christ.

If you would simply address the points made you will see who it is that has no understanding of the Word of God.

I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


God bless.

It is very clear from your responses, that you are more interested in giving what YOU believe, and ignore what I have clearly shown from the Word of God. You ramble on about nothing, and quote Scripture to try to "justify" when YOU believe!

 

[atpollard]

"But the LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of My book"

Can this passage of rebellion against the Lord God of the Bible, which is a "great sin", ever refer to someone who is a born-again believer?

Sure, why not.

Exodus 32:30-35 NASB

30 On the next day Moses said to the people, “You yourselves have committed a great sin; and now I am going up to the LORD, perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” 31 Then Moses returned to the LORD, and said, “Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves. 32 But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!” 33 The LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. 34 But go now, lead the people where I told you. Behold, My angel shall go before you; nevertheless in the day when I punish, I will [fn]punish them for their sin.” 35 Then the LORD smote the people, because of what they did with the calf which Aaron had made.​

Clearly the people have sinned greatly ... worshiping something other than God as God. Within the context of the surrounding paragraph, being blotted out of God's book appears to be a synonym for physical death. Moses asks God to spare the people, or kill him. God responds that those who sinned will die ... and then God sends a plague to kill those God wants killed. Over and over, the Law emphasizes DEATH as the penalty for disobedience.

You even quoted the same message from the New Testament:

1 John 5:16-17 NASB

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.​

Isn't this exactly what Moses did? Moses prayed for the sin of the people before God had passed judgement on them. Once God had passed judgement and taken their life because of their sin, then there was no point in calling out to God on the matter ... God had decided.

We see it also with David:

2 Samuel 12:21-23 NASB

21 Then his servants said to him, “What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food.” 22 He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.’ 23 But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”​

David fasted and prayed while the sin had not led to death, but when God passed the ultimate final ruling, David stopped praying and accepted God's Judgement. Yet note carefully that death was the end to all earthly appeals ("he will not return to me") but David did not believe that it meant Eternal separation (I will go to him).

1 Corinthians 11:27-32 NASB

27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.​

For those in the Church, we have a specific mention of those who "sleep" (which really means committed a sin that led to their death). We are told that our discipline is so that we will NOT BE CONDEMNED along with the world.

So answering the original question, sure. God can kill Christians for their sin and end their life on Earth just like Exodus 32:33 ... but that is just physical death and not eternal death.

 

[Darrell C]

It is very clear from your responses, that you are more interested in giving what YOU believe,

And what I believe is verified by the very Scripture given to you.

You know it, I know it, and God knows it.

and ignore what I have clearly shown from the Word of God.

You have shown nothing, you have simply quoted some proof texts for your false religion and expected everyone to accept them as proving salvation can be lost.

I have addressed every single proof text you have given yet you have addressed...nothing.

Your eyes, ears, and heart are blinded.

Again...what happened to you? I don't remember you being like this before.

You ramble on about nothing, and quote Scripture to try to "justify" when YOU believe!

Here is some more of the "nothing" you refuse to address:


I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


You yourself have admitted they are unbelievers, which is quite evident in the text. They have...

1. Rejected Christ, the Son of God;
2. Rejected His Sacrifice;
3. Rejected the New Covenant (which the Writer contrasts with the Covenant of Law, not only in the preceding verse here, but throughout the Book);
4. Rejected the Ministry of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who ministers to the Lost in order to enlighten their minds to the truth that they might be saved.

And they have "done despite unto Him."

So step up. Explain why this doesn't contrast those who rejected God's will in the Old Testament, and those rejecting His will today?

Stop deluding yourself...

and ignore what I have clearly shown from the Word of God.

You have shown...nothing.

And I have to question how one who professes to believe in Jesus Christ can deny the Salvation of Christ. That is what you are doing.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You're not being honest Sorta Saved by Grace, you know you cannot laugh at this. You gnash your teeth because you cannot address such a simple point which destroys your false gospel.


God bless.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You're not being honest Sorta Saved by Grace, you know you cannot laugh at this. You gnash your teeth because you cannot address such a simple point which destroys your false gospel.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


You yourself have admitted they are unbelievers, which is quite evident in the text. They have...

1. Rejected Christ, the Son of God;
2. Rejected His Sacrifice;
3. Rejected the New Covenant (which the Writer contrasts with the Covenant of Law, not only in the preceding verse here, but throughout the Book);
4. Rejected the Ministry of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who ministers to the Lost in order to enlighten their minds to the truth that they might be saved.

And they have "done despite unto Him."

So step up. Explain why this doesn't contrast those who rejected God's will in the Old Testament, and those rejecting His will today?

Stop deluding yourself...


God bless.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


You yourself have admitted they are unbelievers, which is quite evident in the text. They have...

1. Rejected Christ, the Son of God;
2. Rejected His Sacrifice;
3. Rejected the New Covenant (which the Writer contrasts with the Covenant of Law, not only in the preceding verse here, but throughout the Book);
4. Rejected the Ministry of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who ministers to the Lost in order to enlighten their minds to the truth that they might be saved.

And they have "done despite unto Him."

So step up. Explain why this doesn't contrast those who rejected God's will in the Old Testament, and those rejecting His will today?

Stop deluding yourself...


God bless.

Hebrews 3:12

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God"

Where "departing" is from the Greek, "ἀφίστημι", which is used for "to revolt, depart from, become apostate, fall away"

John 5:16-17,

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


You yourself have admitted they are unbelievers, which is quite evident in the text. They have...

1. Rejected Christ, the Son of God;
2. Rejected His Sacrifice;
3. Rejected the New Covenant (which the Writer contrasts with the Covenant of Law, not only in the preceding verse here, but throughout the Book);
4. Rejected the Ministry of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who ministers to the Lost in order to enlighten their minds to the truth that they might be saved.

And they have "done despite unto Him."

So step up. Explain why this doesn't contrast those who rejected God's will in the Old Testament, and those rejecting His will today?

Stop deluding yourself...


God bless.

Hebrews 10:29, "ἁγιάζω", = "to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin" (J H Thayer., Greek Lexicon)
"to purify, make conformable in character to such dedication: forensically, to free from guilt" (G Abbott-Smith, Greek Lexicon)
"Wherewith he was sanctified (en hôi hêgiasthê). First aorist passive indicative of hagiazô. It is an unspeakable tragedy that should warn every follower of Christ not to play with treachery to Christ" (Dr A T Robertson, Greek Scholar)
"Christ’s atoning sacrifice is very clearly depicted as a means of sanctification in Hebrews...His blood is the means of reconciliation (10:29)" (G Kittel, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)

 

[Darrell C]

Hebrews 3:12

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God"

Where "departing" is from the Greek, "ἀφίστημι", which is used for "to revolt, depart from, become apostate, fall away"

John 5:16-17,

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

I've already addressed this. Its the same issue you are failing to identify in Hebrews 10:28-29...in view is warning not to be unbelieving.

Why not address the response I have already given?

Now...

I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


You yourself have admitted they are unbelievers, which is quite evident in the text. They have...

1. Rejected Christ, the Son of God;
2. Rejected His Sacrifice;
3. Rejected the New Covenant (which the Writer contrasts with the Covenant of Law, not only in the preceding verse here, but throughout the Book);
4. Rejected the Ministry of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who ministers to the Lost in order to enlighten their minds to the truth that they might be saved.

And they have "done despite unto Him."

So step up. Explain why this doesn't contrast those who rejected God's will in the Old Testament, and those rejecting His will today?

Stop deluding yourself...


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Hebrews 10:29, "ἁγιάζω", = "to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin" (J H Thayer., Greek Lexicon)
"to purify, make conformable in character to such dedication: forensically, to free from guilt" (G Abbott-Smith, Greek Lexicon)
"Wherewith he was sanctified (en hôi hêgiasthê). First aorist passive indicative of hagiazô. It is an unspeakable tragedy that should warn every follower of Christ not to play with treachery to Christ" (Dr A T Robertson, Greek Scholar)
"Christ’s atoning sacrifice is very clearly depicted as a means of sanctification in Hebrews...His blood is the means of reconciliation (10:29)" (G Kittel, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)

Great, quote men, and I will continue to quote the actual Scripture, which, if one is not blind, he can understand it:


I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


You yourself have admitted they are unbelievers, which is quite evident in the text. They have...

1. Rejected Christ, the Son of God;
2. Rejected His Sacrifice;
3. Rejected the New Covenant (which the Writer contrasts with the Covenant of Law, not only in the preceding verse here, but throughout the Book);
4. Rejected the Ministry of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who ministers to the Lost in order to enlighten their minds to the truth that they might be saved.

And they have "done despite unto Him."

So step up. Explain why this doesn't contrast those who rejected God's will in the Old Testament, and those rejecting His will today?

Stop deluding yourself...


God bless.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Great, quote men, and I will continue to quote the actual Scripture, which, if one is not blind, he can understand it:


I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


You yourself have admitted they are unbelievers, which is quite evident in the text. They have...

1. Rejected Christ, the Son of God;
2. Rejected His Sacrifice;
3. Rejected the New Covenant (which the Writer contrasts with the Covenant of Law, not only in the preceding verse here, but throughout the Book);
4. Rejected the Ministry of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who ministers to the Lost in order to enlighten their minds to the truth that they might be saved.

And they have "done despite unto Him."

So step up. Explain why this doesn't contrast those who rejected God's will in the Old Testament, and those rejecting His will today?

Stop deluding yourself...


God bless.

Are you just being plain dumb? The New Testament was written in Greek and the words were translated into the English language, and others. To be able to do this, we HAVE TO use the language aids that are available to do this. Because you do not like what the word means, and it does not fit your bias theology, you simply refuse to accept what is said. You are a really sad person! I really don't have time for people like you. Hence I asked if you were a KID, because your ACT LIKE ONE!!!

 

[atpollard]

Hebrews 3:12

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God"

Where "departing" is from the Greek, "ἀφίστημι", which is used for "to revolt, depart from, become apostate, fall away"

Hebrews 3:7-19 NASB

7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
8 DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS [fn]WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
9 WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
10 “THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION
AND SAID, ‘THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART,
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS’;
11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.

12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said,

“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,

DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.”


16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
​

Since Hebrews 3:12 comes on the center of an entire chapter talking about God calling Israelites out of Egypt and into the promised land, and rejecting them because of their unbelief in God's promise ... is it not at least plausible that Hebrews 3:12 is more of a warning for Jews contemplating turning back to the old covenant and thus showing the same unbelief for the New Covenant that their Fathers showed for the Old Covenant.

"Brethern" could refer to either "fellow Christians" or "fellow Jews" or "Jewish Christians" ... but there is a very strong emphasis in the Nation of Israel in this chapter that is hard to completely ignore.

​

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Hebrews 3:7-19 NASB

7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
8 DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS [fn]WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
9 WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
10 “THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION
AND SAID, ‘THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART,
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS’;
11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.

12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said,

“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,

DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.”


16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
​

Since Hebrews 3:12 comes on the center of an entire chapter talking about God calling Israelites out of Egypt and into the promised land, and rejecting them because of their unbelief in God's promise ... is it not at least plausible that Hebrews 3:12 is more of a warning for Jews contemplating turning back to the old covenant and thus showing the same unbelief for the New Covenant that their Fathers showed for the Old Covenant.

"Brethern" could refer to either "fellow Christians" or "fellow Jews" or "Jewish Christians" ... but there is a very strong emphasis in the Nation of Israel in this chapter that is hard to completely ignore.

​

What is a possibility for Jewish Christians, is also the same for Gentile Christians. Just because the Book of Hebrews is written to Jewish believers in the first place, does NOT mean that it is ONLY to them. Otherwise it should not be in the "Christian" Bible, as it has no bearing for the greater majority of believers. the WHOLE Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is for ALL those who are truly born-again, as "ALL Scripture is Inspired by God..."

 

[Darrell C]

Are you just being plain dumb?

Well, I am dumbing it down for you.

The New Testament was written in Greek and the words were translated into the English language, and others.

Doesn't change the context of what was stated, Sorta Saved by Grace.

To be able to do this, we HAVE TO use the language aids that are available to do this. Because you do not like what the word means, and it does not fit your bias theology, you simply refuse to accept what is said.

Nothing in what you posted changes the context of Chapter Ten or the point I have made...

...which you still refuse to address.

You are a really sad person!

It does make me sad to see people rejecting Christ.

That is what you are doing.

You are teaching works-based salvation and do not belong in the Baptist Only section, you should be down in other denominations with your SDA and Catholic brethren until you repent of your heresy and embrace the Christ of the Bible.

I really don't have time for people like you.

Don't worry, I will supply the time.

This one's on me, my friend.

Hence I asked if you were a KID, because your ACT LIKE ONE!!!

It's not me shouting, lol.

Now...

I ask you again...


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Are you really blind to the fact that unbelievers are in view here? Those who rejected the Covenant of Law (v.28), and those who reject the New Covenant, Christ, His Sacrifice, and the ministry of the Spirit of God by which the truth of the Gospel is made known to the natural man?

If you have a better understanding, let's hear it.


You yourself have admitted they are unbelievers, which is quite evident in the text. They have...

1. Rejected Christ, the Son of God;
2. Rejected His Sacrifice;
3. Rejected the New Covenant (which the Writer contrasts with the Covenant of Law, not only in the preceding verse here, but throughout the Book);
4. Rejected the Ministry of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who ministers to the Lost in order to enlighten their minds to the truth that they might be saved.

And they have "done despite unto Him."

So step up. Explain why this doesn't contrast those who rejected God's will in the Old Testament, and those rejecting His will today?

Stop deluding yourself...


God bless.

 

[atpollard]

What is a possibility for Jewish Christians, is also the same for Gentile Christians.

No it isn't.
As a gentile, I have no option to return to the OT Law and make the required offerings at the Temple ... I would be allowed no further than the Outer Court (if the Temple still existed). I can pretend that God made a covenent with my Fathers on Mount Horeb, but it will never be true.

You are completely ignoring the Hebrews 3 context of the Exodus in everything that is being said. So which of the following is more like the people who left Egypt and died in the desert without reaching the promised land:

1. Gentiles who believe for a while, but fall away into disbelief.
2. Jews who start to follow the New Covenent, but return to the Old Covenent.

 

[atpollard]

I think I better just leave you two to finish your rumble.

 

[Darrell C]

What is a possibility for Jewish Christians, is also the same for Gentile Christians.

No, actually it is not.

Think about it: can you turn away from the Covenant of Law?

No, because the Law was made obsolete long before you were ever born.

You are not in danger of continuing to offer up sacrifice according to the Law as these Hebrew brethren were.

. Just because the Book of Hebrews is written to Jewish believers in the first place, does NOT mean that it is ONLY to them.

There are three people recognized by most commentators on Hebrews:


1. Jews who were in truth saved;

2. Jews who were not yet saved and in need of embracing Christ;

3. Jews who had rejected salvation in Christ.


If you had ever read the Book you would see that for yourself.

We can see application of Hebrews to modern believers, here is one that applies to you:


Hebrews 5:10-14
King James Version (KJV)

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


When you can understand this in the Historical and cultural context of the First Century Jew...then you might be able to understand Chapter 6.

Otherwise it should not be in the "Christian" Bible,

What twaddle.

Otherwise it should not be in the "Christian" Bible, as it has no bearing for the greater majority of believers

It has much bearing, but, you cannot apply everything in it to modern Christians.

Unlike those written to, you have never been in relationship with God through the Covenant of Law. That has zero application to you.

the WHOLE Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is for ALL those who are truly born-again, as "ALL Scripture is Inspired by God..."

That's a pretty ignorant statement.

The Covenant of Law was not for all people, it was for Israel alone, that is who God established this Covenant with. Just because the Bible is Inspired doesn't mean you apply everything in it to born again believers.

Doubtful you know how one is born again or what that means, so not sure why you would bother to talk about it. Your doctrine is in contradiction to the concept of new birth, because your doctrine is works-based damnable demon doctrine that denies Salvation through Christ.

And sine this is a little long, I will have to repeat my question in the next post.


God bless.