Can God Discipline a Believer for Sin?

[Brother Bob]

I have never taken a survey, but I don't believe there are practicing gays in my church. As I and others have said about a billion times, to live a "lifestyle" of sin means there was no conversion to begin with. As a saved Christian, we do sin. But, there is a vast difference between living a lifestyle of sin and committing a single sin. Do you honestly not see the difference?__________________

Depends on the sin. There is a list of sins who will not enter Heaven, on postive terms.

Also, it has taken belief from the beginning of time and no one and I mean no one will go to Heaven except they first believe.

As I and others have said about a billion times, to live a "lifestyle" of sin means there was no conversion to begin with.

The others have not said this either. Maybe some. How many times committing a gay act, does it make you never saved, to start with, do you know?

 

[webdog]

There is no list of sins, Bob. As was pointed out already, in it's context, the focus of your proof text is in regards to the unrighteous people...not specific sins.

 

[Amy.G]

Bob, let me ask a question about your church. Does anyone in your congregation ever confess sins? I'm talking about saved believers. What do you tell them? Do you tell them they were never saved?

 

[Brother Bob]

[Bob, let me ask a question about your church. Does anyone in your congregation ever confess sins? I'm talking about saved believers. What do you tell them? Do you tell them they were never saved?

If its being gay, adultery, killed someone, worshiping and idol God we withdraw fellowship from them. If its being angry, failing to visit the sick etc. we tell them to pray about it and we will pray with them.

What about you?

 

[J. Jump]

How many times committing a gay act, does it make you never saved, to start with, do you know?

I'm interested in hearing the answer to this question too. How about it Amy. How many times makes a "lifestyle?" A week, month, year, two years, five years? And how does one determine that time frame? Is it the same for all sins or are there different time frames for different sins based on levels of "badness?"

 

[Brother Bob]

There is no list of sins, Bob. As was pointed out already, in it's context, the focus of your proof text is in regards to the unrighteous people...not specific sins.

Unless you got a "get out of jail free ticket" the following sins will keep you out of Heaven.
1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Romans 6:
10: For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Are you saying that the blood of Jesus is not powerful enough for ALL sins???

I will repeat what I stated earlier that you did not understand:

THE BLOOD COVERS ALL SINS OR NO SINS...

 

[Amy.G]

Bob, I'm not trying to avoid you, but I have to go for awhile. I have sick family today. (son and mother). They've got that awful virus that's been spreading all over TN. We'll talk later.

 

[Brother Bob]

Are you saying that the blood of Jesus is not powerful enough for ALL sins???

I will repeat what I stated earlier that you did not understand:

THE BLOOD COVERS ALL SINS OR NO SINS...

We are talking about whether you ever receive the blood or not. How powerful it is we are not discussing, unless you believe there will be gays, and adulterers in Heaven.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, I'm not trying to avoid you, but I have to go for awhile. I have sick family today. (son and mother). They've got that awful virus that's been spreading all over TN. We'll talk later.
__________________

We just went through it and pray all will be well.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Brother Bob: Are you saying that anyone who has been divorced and remarried is going to Hell? Following your logic, it would have to be so...

Methinks we are leaving 'backsliding' out of the equation.

Everytime someone commits a 'public' sin, some Baptists are quick to jump to the conclusion that they were never saved in the first place.

'Taint necessarily so. People backslide all the time and repent, confess, and are still going to Heaven. FYI, they are going to Heaven if they don't repent or confess (unless they're Catholic, Pentecostal, or some other religion besides Baptist).

They lose their rewards - they do not lose their place in Heaven. To say that they do is to make God a liar and HE IS NOT.

 

[J. Jump]

They lose their rewards - they do not lose their place in Heaven.

IAB16 got a couple of questions for you. Can you show me where the Bible says folks are going to lose their rewards, and then can you show me where it says we are going to spend eternity in heaven?

 

[Brother Bob]

'Taint necessarily so. People backslide all the time and repent, confess, and are still going to Heaven. FYI, they are going to Heaven if they don't repent or confess (unless they're Catholic, Pentecostal, or some other religion besides Baptist).

So, being Baptist is more important than being a homosexual in your church? That is new. Any religion other than Baptist are all lost then? Where is that in the Bible, I haven't read that one. I thought you had to be a Christian myself.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

IAB16: Are you saying that the blood of Jesus is not powerful enough for ALL sins???

I will repeat what I stated earlier that you did not understand:

THE BLOOD COVERS ALL SINS OR NO SINS...

HP: I don’t believe that you believe what you are saying. Does His blood cover the sins of the wicked? Why not? You say “the blood covers all sin or no sin.”

 

[AAA]

It has been stated that God disciplines His children for sin, but that no sin in the believer's life can separate him from God. It is also been stated that God forgives us for all past present and future sins and that all of them were paid for 'in full' on the cross.

God states that when He forgives us of sin that He remembers it of us no more. Does this make a liar out of God if He disciplines a believer for something He has promised never to be remembered again?

GOD remebers no more in a legal (sin can no longer be held agianst the child of GOD) context, but because GOD is all knowing he remebers (has knowlege of it) it in His mind.

God forgave MOSES, but he would not let Moses enter into the promise land becaue of his sin.

God forgave David for his adultery, and as David weeped, God took his child.

In both cases GOD forgave them both and removed the account of sin from HIS "legal books", but because God loved them he chatises HIS children..

Does this make sense?

:godisgood:

 

[J. Jump]

I'm interested in hearing the answer to this question too. How about it Amy. How many times makes a "lifestyle?" A week, month, year, two years, five years? And how does one determine that time frame? Is it the same for all sins or are there different time frames for different sins based on levels of "badness?"

Amy?

IAB16 got a couple of questions for you. Can you show me where the Bible says folks are going to lose their rewards, and then can you show me where it says we are going to spend eternity in heaven?

I Am Blessed 16?

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Sorry. I have been doing taxes all week and haven't been able to be on the board as much as I'd like. Sometimes my 'real' life beckons.

No, I really can't show you where we will lose our rewards (crowns), but I can show you how we can win them - and it's not by sinning...

We will be casting our crowns at the feet of Jesus in worship. Not having any crowns to cast would be (to me) like being the only guest at a birthday party with nothing to give.

As far as spending eternity in Heaven:
Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

There are too many verses about OSAS for me to quote them all, but they are in the Bible (at least that's the way I believe).

If I don't show up, I'm not ducking out, I'm just tied to my calculator and IRS forms. :BangHead:

 

[Amy.G]

To live a lifestyle of sin simply means that one does not care if they offend a Holy God. It means they are unwilling to change and serve only self. This person is an unbeliever. We are ALL sinners whether you want to believe it or not. But, a believer feels sorrow over their sin and goes to God for forgiveness. It's not about how many times a person sins. It's about what's in his heart. There are people who are believers that struggle with certain sins. Some with anger, some with arrogance, some with self centerdness, some with lust, ect. That does not make them unbelievers and unsaved. In fact, we ALL struggle with some sort of sin. This notion that Christians cannot sin is unbiblical to say the least. If that were true why are we told many, many times how to fight against sin in our lives?

We are to put on the full armour of God.
We are told that our battle is not with flesh and blood, but with spiritual things.
We are told to renew our minds.
We are told to resist the devil.
We are told to pluck out our eye if it offends us.

Why are we told to do these things if it just comes naturally for the Christian to be righteous?

And if you think for a second that the only sins you can commit are the ones listed in the 10 commandments, you are wrong. Jesus made it plain that sin begins in the heart. What the eye sees, the heart wants.

When you compare yourself to our Holy God, no matter how "good" you may think you are, you will be bound to say as Isaiah did, "woe is me, for I am undone!"

As John said, " My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

In the word of our Lord, "why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God."

 

[J. Jump]

Sorry. I have been doing taxes all week

Oh yet another reminder of what lies ahead for me I feel your pain.

No, I really can't show you where we will lose our rewards (crowns)

So when folks say that we will lose our rewards that is just an unsubstantiated doctrine that others are supposed to believe?

but I can show you how we can win them - and it's not by sinning...

I would agree with that! The question then becomes what happens to the Christian that keeps sinning.

We will be casting our crowns at the feet of Jesus in worship. Not having any crowns to cast would be (to me) like being the only guest at a birthday party with nothing to give.

This is another one of those church traditions that doesn't hold up to the Scripture test. It is only the elders that are spoken of that are casting crowns down, and those elders are not people, but that's probably for a different discussion

As far as spending eternity in Heaven:
Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

You forgot some of it . . . that where I am there you may be also. So do you have any text that says Jesus is going to spend eternity in heaven?

I don't think its there, but I would definitely be open to reviewing it if you can find it. And then an explanation will be needed as to how that meshes with the text that God is going to reside on earth amongst His people.

Going to "heaven" is another one of those church traditions that people have bought into that can not be substantiated with Scripture, because Scripture tells us that God Himself isn't even going to spend eternity in heaven, but on the earth.

Now I guess one could call that heaven if they wanted to, but I think it really muddies up the waters.

There are too many verses about OSAS for me to quote them all, but they are in the Bible (at least that's the way I believe).

You'll get no argument or debate from me because I too believe in the doctrine that once a person is saved their eternal destiny is set. I just don't think Scripture says our eternal destiny is heaven And I believe the Bible teaches us there is an age of time that splits this lifetime and eternity.

I'm just tied to my calculator and IRS forms.

Stop you are going to give me nightmares

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

So when folks say that we will lose our rewards that is just an unsubstantiated doctrine that others are supposed to believe?

It may be in the Bible, I just don't have time to look this week.

The question then becomes what happens to the Christian that keeps sinning.

They will still go to Heaven, but I would hate to be like that and look into the face of the Almighty God. They will most certainly not hear, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

This is another one of those church traditions that doesn't hold up to the Scripture test.

Why else would we want to win crowns? Surely we will not be wearing them to show how 'good' we were?

And then an explanation will be needed as to how that meshes with the text that God is going to reside on earth amongst His people.

I knew you were going to bring this up and I almost responded, but didn't want to take the time. Yes, I realize that we will be living on the 'new' earth. Wherever Jesus is will be Heaven for me!

Here's another nightmare for you. I think my finigers are going to have to be surgically removed from this pencil!

Any further responses from me will probably have to wait until after the week-end.

Blessings,
§ue :type: