Can I vent?

[annsni]

Yep. I do understand. We've just been agreeing so much lately that I had to mix it up a bit and see how it would go. :thumbs:

I noticed that when I went from one of those types that try to teach and pound into you every tiny part of your life, focusing on what you should wear, look like, and all that and joined one that just taught, I quit stagnating and grew. Church meetings were no longer an obligation, but something I looked forward to intensely. I feel like I'm drowning if I'm away from a church teaching church. I never felt that way in the ones that went nuts trying to get us all to come in looking and acting like drones.

That is a church that gives life. I'm glad you're in a great church now!

 

[windcatcher]

Just to clarify, the topic was not started out of some sense of arrogance. If that were the case I would leave rather quickly. These are loving people who have been taught something and are slow to change. I would rather they be like that than change with every doctrine that blows.

I just get frustrated from time to time with things that are said without scriptural support. I have no problems with a personal conviction about hair, clothing, or such. I just don't think we should preach those convictions without support from scripture.

Has anyone gone through this as an Assistant? The Pastor has taught me much about what it takes to Pastor a Church, but how much can one disagree with the teachings and remain in harmony?

I would think if one is an assistant or under the mentoring of another... be it a pastor or a supervisor.... the question becomes a question of submitting to that authority and recognizing that in times of his absence, the assistant is viewed as the representative of that authority. However, God has given each of us a unique personality, identity, fingerprints, genetics..... and in all that we are given different functions and talents and priorities regarding his expectations of where he's placed us in the body of Christ.

I took an animal to the pound today. A lady behind the desk with a beautiful complexion, no make up, bright clear eyes, long dark hair done up, in a feminine and modest dress with a little lace at the neck... and absent jewelry, was one of three people at the desk. Having visited a UPC church a few times in the 80's, I inquired of her.... and yes, she's 'Pentecostal'. I know that group makes much of physical dress and appearance.... and many refuse to have a t.v. in their home. They hold to beliefs in tongues, gifts, signs, dancing 'in the spirit' but their doctrine of 'oneness' disregarding the trinity as though it is a teaching representing 3 Gods either I don't agree with.... not their 'oneness' and not the '3 gods version', baptism in Jesus name (which I don't find particular disagreement with), but they believe one can be saved and lost and saved and lost.... instead of OSAS, and their teaching seems strongly legalistic. We engaged in some common and comforting conversation at the desk regarding common ground and sharing the common areas of our faith in Jesus Christ.... there openly without shame in a public place which was not busy but others were passing. Identification and recognition had more to do with her appearance which stood in contrast to my own and others around us or commonly seen elsewhere. Every now and then.... when I think how God has called us to be a light on a hill.... appearance.... which can be manipulated and motivated by reasons other than obediance to God or the desire to be holy as he is holy...can also be used to identify us as person who understands that in everything we say, do, or look..that as Christians.. we are God's representatives to the world. The more we look and act and identify with the world.... the less they see of Christ making a difference in our lives. In saying this, I cannot help but feel the conviction of my own words in areas which I fail so miserably.

I don't remember the exact words... but somewhere, in the Pauline epistles, I believe, is a verse something to the effect that the calling of God where in you are called is without repentance. A motorcycle gang is not likely to give the time of day to a man in a suit and tie, short hair and no beard, who condemn motorcycles and their riders as vulgar hoolums, drug addicts, alcoholics and womanizers, even though some of them may be. But a Christian who understands the distinction in superficial appearances and behaviors, may draw attention because he looks in everyway like them except he stands out because his manners are mild and respectful, he's kind and shows mercy, he listens with patience and understanding and offers insight and comfort when needed... and he exercises his faith with a boldness which denies the indulgences of sin and excess and is a steadfast witness of his faith in Christ. Short hair or long, clean, tied back hair..... leathers and jeans or suit and tie, ..... a motocycle or a limosine, a neatly trimmed beard or no facial hair, crazy music without vulgarity or s@xually suggestive content or Bach? These are a matter of personal tastes for the most part although the Bible does give us some guidance.... and it is through our differences in taste that God may help others to relate and see Jesus in us.... whether through behavior which is distinctive from the norm expected of those who appear the same or strong distinctions of dress not commonly seen in those peers around us.
Where is it that God has called us into obediance is the question..... not the opinions of others.

May God bless you and direct you and keep you in his peace.:flower:

 

[thegospelgeek]

Why? Do you want long hair?

No I actually have VERY short hair, no tats, dress conservative, don't drink, and do all the "Right Things" that are mentioned. It's just that I do them because it's me, not because it makes me "Super Christain".

 

[Aaron]

What does a real Super Christian do?

 

[OldRegular]

I don't know if this is the place, but if I hear one more comment from the pupit about long hair, contemporary music, KJV, or the like I'm gonna go nuts.

Subject hair:

Can anyone explain to me why so many think long hair is a sin for men?

Well I will vent a little. I don't like long hair on men, particularlu old men who put it in a pony tail. Also Scripture states: 1 Corinthians 11:14. Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

Now some will argue that was a cultural thing but Paul says asks: Doth not even nature itself teach you. That sort of rules out culture.

That being said I don't get too exited about long hair on men as long as they don't wear an ear ring in whichever ear, but given my druthers!.

As for contemporary music I think most of it "sucks". Most of it is makes one believe they are at a rock concert rather than a worship of God service. On another forum some years back some folks defended something called "death metal" as part of the supposed worship of God. I had never heard of it so I ask my son.

Now to the KJV. I am not a KJV only person and I have a number of versions. The KJV is somewhat difficult to understand in places. However, I trust it for the simple reason that it has been around longer than most. Does God have a part in preserving His Revelation. I believe so.

 

[OldRegular]

These are the same people that teach if you don't wear a coat and tie on Sunday you are disrespecting God and they are the relatives of those that think clapping your hands or raising your hands is wrong. And all of it comes from the same place my friend....arrogance.

We are foolish enough at moments to assume that we have it all figured out and if people are not just like us then something is wrong with them.

It has always been this way and it always will until Christ returns. These people breed and are in every church.

So hang in there.

I will take exception to some of the above.

I believe that people should wear their best when they go to worship God. If that happens to be a pair of overalls then so be it. But they at least should be clean. There is no excuse for a man to come to worship in dirty, sweaty shorts and t-shirt.

I believe that women should dress modestly as Scripture states. Some teenage girls, and some older women, come to worship service with less covered than street walkers.

As far as clapping hands and waving arms, if I was interested in that I would join one of the Pentecostal groups where they really know how it is done.

 

[Aaron]

As far as clapping hands and waving arms, if I was interested in that I would join one of the Pentecostal groups where they really know how it is done.

Way to go, Old man! :thumbs: What's worse than sensual worship? Sensual worship done badly!

 

[sag38]

Why the need to call worship where one claps their hands or raises them sensual? If you are going to take that route then I can just as easily say, "What's worse than bigoted fundamentalism? Bigoted fundamentalism done badly."

 

[Mexdeaf]

Why the need to call worship where one claps thier hands or raiseses them sunsual? If you are going to take that route then I can just as easily say, "What's worse than bigoted fundametalism? Bigoted fundamentalism done badly."

Former bigoted fundamentalist says: :applause::thumbsup::wavey:

 

[OldRegular]

Way to go, Old man! :thumbs: What's worse than sensual worship? Sensual worship done badly!

I could not have said it half as good. Best laugh I have had all week.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

Why the need to call worship where one claps their hands or raises them sensual? If you are going to take that route then I can just as easily say, "What's worse than bigoted fundamentalism? Bigoted fundamentalism done badly."

One reason is that a lot of women clapping their hands are, as they said in the movie "Anatomy of a Murder", swishing their hips.

Are you saying fundamentalism, however you may define it, is by nature bigoted?

 

[saturneptune]

What does a real Super Christian do?

He puts on a tight blue suit, wears a red cape and has a big C on his chest. He flies around the world fighting for truth, justice, and the straight way. He is faster than the twinkling of an eye, more powerful than Beelzubub, able to leap the Temple Mount in a single bounce. Look, up in the sky, its a band of angels, no its a falling star, no, its Super Christian.

 

[sag38]

Oh my, women are swishing their hips. I guess they don't need to walk either as that really results in the swishing of the hips. Don't want to temp the fundamentalists

 

[Revmitchell]

Why the need to call worship where one claps their hands or raises them sensual? If you are going to take that route then I can just as easily say, "What's worse than bigoted fundamentalism? Bigoted fundamentalism done badly."

Don't lump fundamentalists in with stupidity. He doesn't represent anything close.

 

[sag38]

Just referencing a particular brand of fundamentalism that is steeped in opinion and extra-Biblical requirements.

 

[Aaron]

Why the need to call worship where one claps their hands or raises them sensual? If you are going to take that route then I can just as easily say, "What's worse than bigoted fundamentalism? Bigoted fundamentalism done badly."

Forgive me. My use of certain terms is in large part influenced by their usage in the Bible. The term sensual simply means unspiritual. I had nothing in mind that the movie ratings folks would call sensual. (I sometimes forget my audience.)

However, I know what the Scriptures say about spiritual worship, and the modern worship in Baptist churches is nothing like it.

 

[Aaron]

He puts on a tight blue suit, wears a red cape and has a big C on his chest. He flies around the world fighting for truth, justice, and the straight way. He is faster than the twinkling of an eye, more powerful than Beelzubub, able to leap the Temple Mount in a single bounce. Look, up in the sky, its a band of angels, no its a falling star, no, its Super Christian.

:laugh:

Actually, geek's accusation is common, and it's a common defamatory caricature of groups who teach that certian modes of dress and vessel maintenance are more in line with God's will than others. I doubt very seriously anyone is thinking he is more of a super christian by observing those teachings than geek thinks he is by observing another's (or even his own) teachings on prayer, giving and moral purity.

 

[OldRegular]

Oh my, women are swishing their hips. I guess they don't need to walk either as that really results in the swishing of the hips. Don't want to temp the fundamentalists

The Apostle paul says:

1 Timothy 2:9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

One can also assume that Paul did not approve of the swishing of the hips in time with the pagan beat of what some call music for worship of Holy God.

 

[sag38]

You know, when I have been in church clapping to the music in worship I haven't been watching women swishing their hips. Thanks for corrupting what otherwise was as innocent as could be for myself and most everyone else. If that is an issue with you then you have a much deeper problem to deal with. May I suggest www.SettingCaptivesFree.com. You will have to type the link into you browser for it to work.

 

[Aaron]

A charismatic service is a great place to pick up babes!