Can Light and Darkness co-exist?

[HankD]

Light(Christ) and darkness(Satan) cannot possibly co-exist!

2 Corinthians 6:14King James Version (KJV)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

They do coexist Steve - they are in the same universe. In the Book of Job satan stands before God and has a confrontation with Him; how can that happen in they don't coexist?-
The scripture you quote says they don't have any communion or fellowship not that they don't coexist.

Also in the Revelation satan shows up in the local church of Pergamos to persecute the children of God:

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Coexist - Yes.
Communion and/or fellowship - No.

HankD

 

[HankD]

Here's the thing, no one denies we all sin. Now, committing fornication in God's eye is no worse a sin than stealing a penny. Now, those who are truly saved, when they sin, regardless the sin, they will repent.

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Those who live in a perpetual state of sin, are not His. Period. End of story. 1 John speaks about this as they can not continue PRACTICING sin. Commit sin? Absolutely. Egregous sins? Quite possibly. But dwell in sin for extended periods of time? Absolutely not.

Everybody is christ's to fulfill His purpose in their own way even the wicked with whom He will do with whatever He pleases and will consign them to wherever He pleases.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

NKJV Psalm 115:3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases.

SC, with a moniker like Sovereign Grace you shouldn't have a problem with this concept - all are God's to do with what He pleases and fulfill His purposes in glorifying Himself.

HankD

 

[percho]

Brother Percho, God divided the Light from the darkness. Something divided can not co-exist. A kingdom divided will not stand, but will become nothing.

• Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. John 11:9,10

Is that taking place in the world today at the same time. Some walking in the light of God and some walking in the darkness of Satan?
Is that not the way it will be until the time of Rev. 21 and 22?

And no I do not believe light and darkness can co exist in one born of God. Presently there some who are of the light and there others who are of the darkness.

 

[SovereignGrace]

• Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. John 11:9,10

Is that taking place in the world today at the same time. Some walking in the light of God and some walking in the darkness of Satan?
Is that not the way it will be until the time of Rev. 21 and 22?

And no I do not believe light and darkness can co exist in one born of God. Presently there some who are of the light and there others who are of the darkness.

The children of God now reside in the kingdom of Light, Christ being King of that kingdom. The children of Satan(by relationship not by creation) reside in the kingdom of darkness, Satan being their king. Once a person has been transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Light, they will forever be in the Light. They can not reside in both kingdoms at the same time. Jesus stated we can not have two masters, because we will love one and hate the other.

 

[SovereignGrace]

They do coexist Steve - they are in the same universe. In the Book of Job satan stands before God and has a confrontation with Him; how can that happen in they don't coexist?-
The scripture you quote says they don't have any communion or fellowship not that they don't coexist.

Also in the Revelation satan shows up in the local church of Pergamos to persecute the children of God:

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Coexist - Yes.
Communion and/or fellowship - No.

HankD

The thing is we are never in darkness after being called out of darkness. Sure, we not always dwell where the Light shines brightest, for when we sin, we are not at the center of His will. However, this is where we, as saved peoples, are chastened of the Lord. We then return to where the Light shines brightest, the center of His will.

 

[SovereignGrace]

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.



Everybody is christ's to fulfill His purpose in their own way even the wicked with whom He will do with whatever He pleases and will consign them to wherever He pleases.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

NKJV Psalm 115:3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases.

SC, with a moniker like Sovereign Grace you shouldn't have a problem with this concept - all are God's to do with what He pleases and fulfill His purposes in glorifying Himself.

HankD

Brother HankD, as I asked you earlier...

You are attending a church when one sunday your pastor comes in with a hangover. A few weeks later he comes in high from drugs and even has visible trackmarks from shooting up. A few weeks later he comes in with his wife and a few weeks later his mistress. You see him leaving a known brothel later on. Other members spot his vehicle at a strip club on numerous occasions.

Now...are you going to set under his authority as being your pastor? Are you going to listen to him preach about Christ?

 

[SovereignGrace]

“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."[John 8:31-32]

The unregenerate are prisoners in the darkness where Satan dwells. They can not see where they are going(or heading) because they have no light to show them the way. Left to themselves, they have nothing to pay for their release, and in fact, left in that fallen state, don't want freed. That is because in that darkness Satan has "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."[2 Corinthians 4:4]

This is where Christ steps in and sets them free and does "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”[Matthew 11:28-30] Christ breaks Satan's yoke from around them, a yoke that keeps them in darkness, that restricts them from coming to the Light, so that they can not see the Light of the gospel of Christ, and He places His yoke on them. They are now walking in the Light and "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light."[Ephesians 5:8]

We can not be children of Light and darkness at the same time. We can not be Christ's and Satan's servants concurrently, either. Love one, hate the other. But never can we love both.

 

[HankD]

Brother HankD, as I asked you earlier...

You are attending a church when one sunday your pastor comes in with a hangover. A few weeks later he comes in high from drugs and even has visible trackmarks from shooting up. A few weeks later he comes in with his wife and a few weeks later his mistress. You see him leaving a known brothel later on. Other members spot his vehicle at a strip club on numerous occasions.

Now...are you going to set under his authority as being your pastor? Are you going to listen to him preach about Christ?

I thought it was a rhetorical question. But no, the first thing I would do is ask the other deacons to make a visit to him and attempt to find out why so great a fall from grace and make an attempt at restoration.

If he continued to walk after the flesh then we would have to ask him to take a leave of absence (at very least) hoping that repentance would follow the chastisement that would most certainly follow if he were indeed a child of God.

But if any brother/sister walked after the flesh (in darkness) in such a manner as you have given we would have reason to believe that perhaps they were never really born again. Although (but unlikely) an individual who claimed Christ as Lord and Savior and practiced such a life style could possibly be a wanderer from the flock.

Like I said, I believe this discussion has devolved into a case of semantic differences.

Hopefully we all learned.

HankD

 

[HankD]

“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."[John 8:31-32]

The unregenerate are prisoners in the darkness where Satan dwells. They can not see where they are going(or heading) because they have no light to show them the way. Left to themselves, they have nothing to pay for their release, and in fact, left in that fallen state, don't want freed. That is because in that darkness Satan has "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."[2 Corinthians 4:4]

This is where Christ steps in and sets them free and does "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”[Matthew 11:28-30] Christ breaks Satan's yoke from around them, a yoke that keeps them in darkness, that restricts them from coming to the Light, so that they can not see the Light of the gospel of Christ, and He places His yoke on them. They are now walking in the Light and "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light."[Ephesians 5:8]

We can not be children of Light and darkness at the same time. We can not be Christ's and Satan's servants concurrently, either. Love one, hate the other. But never can we love both.

 

[HankD]

This does not address the O/P question concerning the coexistence of light and darkness (As it stands) because it does not say "in the believer" but leaves the scope of the subject to the listener.

But the Thratyra believers were the servants of Christ yet they were seduced to "commit porneia".

Though they themselves were of the light they were committing deeds of darkness.

HankD

 

[percho]

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

Let's look at the OP in this context.

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Matt 4:14

Can 1 John 1:5 be said of anyone while still flesh and blood? Do you think 1 John 1:5 will be able to be said of anyone post 1 Cor 15:51-53?

 

[HankD]

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

Let's look at the OP in this context.

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Matt 4:14

Can 1 John 1:5 be said of anyone while still flesh and blood? Do you think 1 John 1:5 will be able to be said of anyone post 1 Cor 15:51-53?

Post - meaning after our resurrection, yes.
When He returns we will be like Him because we shall see Him as He is.

HankD

 

[percho]

Yes, after the resurrection. Will there be any darkness in us at all, after the resurrection. Will we then be unable to sin?

 

[SovereignGrace]

I thought it was a rhetorical question.

No, I was asking you an honest and sincere question, because if someone can be a carnal Christian, then it would have to also envelope the ministers and not just the laity.

But no, the first thing I would do is ask the other deacons to make a visit to him and attempt to find out why so great a fall from grace and make an attempt at restoration.

Pastors are held to higher standards, in my opinion. To those who much is given, much is required[Luke 12:48]. Pastors have more on their plate than the laity as it is they who shepherd the local flock. It is they who are entrusted to preach and/or teach the word. So if some of the laity hold to a false doctrine it is different than if the pastor does, seeing it is he who is preaching/teaching/proclaiming it from behind the pulpit.

So, it's of my opinion that when a pastor would be acting in the manner of that scenario, seeing he is the shepherd of that flock, he needs to be dealt with faster and harsher. We as local churches, need to have pastors who are solid in the word. Who have a good reputation...as much as possible...with the world. What kind of signal would it give the world if local churches were chocked full of those types of pastors?

Now, restoration is always the first and foremost goal, as Jesus laid out in Matthew 18. If it can't, then you kick him out. To live in a manner of that pastor in my scenario, it is showing a life devoid of repentance, and also sanctification. Two things the life of the sinner is devoid of.

If he continued to walk after the flesh then we would have to ask him to take a leave of absence (at very least) hoping that repentance would follow the chastisement that would most certainly follow if he were indeed a child of God.

Christians live in the flesh, yes. But they do not live after it. The fruit people bear shows what they are.

But if any brother/sister walked after the flesh (in darkness) in such a manner as you have given we would have reason to believe that perhaps they were never really born again. Although (but unlikely) an individual who claimed Christ as Lord and Savior and practiced such a life style could possibly be a wanderer from the flock.

To live in that manner shows what they are. A deceived person.

Like I said, I believe this discussion has devolved into a case of semantic differences.

No. I just showed you someone who was still in darkness proclaiming to be in the Light.

Hopefully we all learned.

HankD

Agree.

 

[SovereignGrace]

This does not address the O/P question concerning the coexistence of light and darkness (As it stands) because it does not say "in the believer" but leaves the scope of the subject to the listener.

But the Thratyra believers were the servants of Christ yet they were seduced to "commit porneia".

Though they themselves were of the light they were committing deeds of darkness.

HankD

Which post of mine? Please quote it so I can address it to clarify. Thanks in advance.

 

[HankD]

Christians live in the flesh, yes. But they do not live after it. The fruit people bear shows what they are.

Your sentence proves my point of semantic differences. I emboldened the prepositions used.
Either can be true depending on the passage context and the Koine Greek prepositions.

Paul writing to the Romans warns them not to live "after" the flesh.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

I would agree that they cannot live after the flesh without reaping the result which is "ye shall die".

HankD

 

[HankD]

Which post of mine? Please quote it so I can address it to clarify. Thanks in advance.

Actually the title of the thread "Can light and darkness co-exist? which is what caused my personal objection because they do co-exist in the scope of the entire universe. In the temptation in the wilderness Christ and satan co-existing in the desert clashed, proving that light and darkness did indeed co-exist even to the point of hostile communication.

However there was of course no communion between the two.

I think one passage in scripture which would be a point of agreement would be:

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Light and darkness can never walk together or be in agreement.

HankD

 

[agedman]

I have certainly enjoyed this thread.

Darkness will never be extinguished.

As I recall, is not the "outer darkness" eternal?

Do not the redeemed able to see the smoke rising out of the pit from the gates of the new heaven?

So, does not darkness and light co-exist even at that time?

 

[SovereignGrace]

What is wrong with this picture?

In this picture, we have Miranda Lambert, Keith Urban, and ZZ Top's guitarist Billy Gibbons really enjoying themselves onstage. They are loving their life. And whenever one of them receives an award, they usually 'thank' God for it. Yet, their lives reflect anything but Light. They are enjoying their lives status quo. Unless God comes to them and shines His Light about them, they will never come to Him. They will enjoy their lives all the way to hell.

They are in darkness and do not want anything to do with that Light. As Jesus proclaimed, "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."[John 3:19-21]

 

[Calypsis4]

Actually the title of the thread "Can light and darkness co-exist? which is what caused my personal objection because they do co-exist in the scope of the entire universe. In the temptation in the wilderness Christ and satan co-existing in the desert clashed, proving that light and darkness did indeed co-exist even to the point of hostile communication.

However there was of course no communion between the two.

I think one passage in scripture which would be a point of agreement would be:

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Light and darkness can never walk together or be in agreement.

HankD

You're right but they can be right next to each other.

In the life of any believer that has lust, lies, immorality, theft, jealousy, envy, gossip, gluttony, or selfishness in any part of his personal temple...then those parts have darkness and the darkness will stay there until the sins are confessed. "Give no place (Greek = Topos, 'room, chamber') to the devil.' Eph. 4:27. Think about it: why would the Holy Spirit move on Paul to pen those words warning against the mingling of light and darkness in the soul if it was not possible in the first place.