Can People of Other Faiths Be Saved?

[Paul of Eugene]

I kind of agree with Helen on the issue of the preaching of the stars. Not that I believe the names men have given the constellations has anything to do with it, but rather that, in contemplating the beauty and mystery of the stars people can be drawn to think on eternal things and as they do so the Spirit of God can take advantage of that turn of thought and lead men to Him.

Sometimes the issue being considered here is phrased in this way: What is the very minimum knowledge that a person must have before they can be saved? I think there is a scriptural answer to that question:

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. NASU

Now Paul of Tarsus explicitely stated that it is necessary to hear the gospel:

Rom 10:14-17 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. NASU

But then Paul explicitley considers the objection of some that this would not be fair to all because not all people have heard the gospel. He raises this point IN THE VERY NEXT VERSE:

Rom 10:18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."

It is a bit disengenious to argue, as someone has above, that this passage in the Psalms actually does not refer to hearing the gospel. Paul of Tarsus has explicitely stated, here before our eyes, that he counts the preaching from the stars as sufficient preaching to all men everywhere. Not that it is desireable to let this be the only preaching men ever hear, but, it does count as sufficient preaching.

Therefore, when God on judgement day judges every man, no man will be able to say "I was never given a fair chance for salvation". God will show them where He gave them their chance and how they lost it.

There is no other name under heaven by which men can be saved, other than Jesus Christ. This means that it takes His sacrifice on the cross and His acceptance of their repentence and trust in Him - spiritually perceived, at least. Even Job was saved by the blood of Christ even though he had not hear of his redeemer from any man.

But it pleases Christ that many of us should actually be aware of His name and His incarnation and His sacrifice on the cross; it further pleases Him that His gospel be proclaimed by men throughout the world. And so this we do, believing it can make the difference for many souls as to whether or not they will, in fact, find the salvation we all so desperately need.

 

[Brother Shane]

There is only one God..one Bible..there should be no 'type' of religion. You should be God's child.

 

[Watchman]

Helen said:
"No one can be saved outside of Christ. The Christ of the Bible, and not another Christ."

Thank you Helen, I am satisfied that your answer is no, no one is saved except through Christ.
Now, granted, there may well be those that are in the cults that may be questioning that cult's dogma, looking for what is the truth. There have certainly been people that have come out of these cults. None of us, sitting here in from of our computers can truthfully say that EVERYONE that enters a Mormon temple or J.W. Kingdom hall is lost. I do believe that those that are the Lord's sheep WILL leave these cults, because they preach a different Christ and they will be lead into the truth.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Helen:
Marcia, I don't think there are too many places in the world anymore which have not heard the Gospel.

I know several mission boards that target unreached people groups. These are usually people in remote areas that have no believers at all in the area and/or do not know the gospel. Each week, my church bulletin has something on one of these groups. But their numbers are shrinking.

There is an interesting book out by Rabi Maharaj called "Death of a Guru" where he chronicals his 'death' to Hinduism and birth into Christ. It is evident from the first that the entire culture where he was, was aware of Christianity.

I read the book several years ago. If I am remembering it correctly, wasn't he somewhere in the West Indies? There were Christians in his locale, as I recall. Also, when he became a Christian, he specifically heard the gospel and trusted Christ. He didn't just somehow pull knowledge out of the air on Jesus.

I know there has been a lot of time since the Crucifixion and Resurrection when that cannot have been said, but that is why I have also tried to point out that these people may be in the same position as those from before the Advent of Christ, and yet still have enough knowledge of the truth given to them, one way or another, by God, to be able to choose that truth and trust the Creator God to save them, somehow, some way.

The question is, can they be saved without knowing Christ? That has been the question from the beginning of this thread. Will me meet people in heaven, who lived after Jesus died and rose again, and did not know about Christ?

 

[Marcia]

Or another way to put it is what 3 men in a conservative evangelical church told me, that a good Muslim who did not hear the gospel will go to heaven.

Do you agree?

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Fred the Baptist:
With all due respect and love, I would hope that there is room here for Universalism. . .

There have been Primitive Baptist Churches with Universalism as a part of their articles of faith. Not sure if any of those churches are still around, but there may very well be some individual Baptists who hold to that belief. I'm not one of them but I will keep an open mind in this area.

If universalism is the case, why did Jesus die for our sins? Do you mean by universalism that his righteousness is automatically imputed to everyone whether they believe in Christ or not, and even if they reject him? This would mean salvation with no regeneration by the Holy Spirit, wouldn't it?

 

[Fred the Baptist]

Originally posted by Watchman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fred the Baptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Watchman:
Man, I would hope that, here on the Baptist Board, that NO one would vote yes, or even, not sure.

With all due respect and love, I would hope that there is room here for Universalism. There appears to be room for Calvinism. There should also be room for Universalism. There have been Primitive Baptist Churches with Universalism as a part of their articles of faith. Not sure if any of those churches are still around, but there may very well be some individual Baptists who hold to that belief. I'm not one of them but I will keep an open mind in this area. </font>[/QUOTE]Respect and love? Granted, those are admirable traits. But to present some other way to be saved, leading people to hell, well, if that isn't the height of hatred, I don't know what is. </font>[/QUOTE]There is no hatred on my part. I was giving you respect and giving my thoughts in love.

I personally believe that I should not dismiss out of hand those Baptists who believe differently from me. That is the point I was making. I believe that this is traditional Baptist thought. If there was an absolute answer to every question, we would not even be having this discussion. We would just listen to the person giving the answer and blindly follow. I'm not willing to do that. Which person would I follow?

I have personally encountered an absolute, "I know what God's will is" kind of thought in a church where I once was a member. There anyone expressing thoughts different from the person bringing an idea forward was angrily treated as being an obstructionist or worse. Once I heard the Pastor with great anger publicly brand something that one person had mistakenly stated as a "lie out of the pit of hell".

2 Corinthians 5:15 (King James Version) "And that he died for all , that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (Emphasis mine.)

Romans 5:18 (King James Version) "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." (Emphasis mine.)

I know that these verses can be interpreted in many ways. Well, I guess that's my point. They can be interpreted in many ways. Let's let that continue.

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by Marcia:
Or another way to put it is what 3 men in a conservative evangelical church told me, that a good Muslim who did not hear the gospel will go to heaven.

Do you agree?

Those three men need their heads examined!! There is no excuse---there is none good, no not one!! All of the righteousness of every person who has ever lived since Adam---put together---would be as "filthy rags" compared to the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ---which is "imputed" to them who believe on His name--because there is no other name under Heaven given among men whereby we must be saved!!!

Marcia---I can't believe this kind of stuff is being circulated around Baptist circles---yet I hear it too around here---in the Bible belt!!!

God help us!!!

Preachers---get up in your pulpit this Sunday--and tell the truth!!!!

Bro. David

 

[Helen]

Marcia, we are not saved by works, but by faith. It does not matter how 'good' anyone is outside of Christ, if they are outside of Christ they are outside of life and nothing they can do on their own will change that fact.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Fred the Baptist:
I personally believe that I should not dismiss out of hand those Baptists who believe differently from me. That is the point I was making. I believe that this is traditional Baptist thought.

Fred, it is not a matter of dismissing what other Baptists may believe, but what biblical support exists or does not exist for universalism.

If there was an absolute answer to every question, we would not even be having this discussion. We would just listen to the person giving the answer and blindly follow. I'm not willing to do that. Which person would I follow?

2 Corinthians 5:15 (King James Version) "And that he died for all , that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (Emphasis mine.)

Romans 5:18 (King James Version) "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." (Emphasis mine.)

I know that these verses can be interpreted in many ways. Well, I guess that's my point. They can be interpreted in many ways. Let's let that continue.

I don't think it's a matter of listening to or following a certain person. The verses you give above do not mean that all are saved when you examine them against other passages. Scripture should be compared with scripture. Jesus said if one did not believe in him, they would perish. There are many passages in the epistles that say the same thing; therefore, we know the above passages do not mean everyone is saved. Neither is there contradiction - have to go out now but maybe someone will shed light on the "all" in the verses above.

 

[bapmom]

The "all" refers to salvation being made available to "all". No group is left out because of nationality or skin color or gender, or anything else. Anyone can accept salvation freely, but the accepting must happen in order for the gift to be received by the individuals.

 

[Helen]

All men are truly atoned for and justified through Christ. That is not the issue. The issue is that so many refuse Christ (the Truth and the Way ...and the Life....) and thus refuse both that atonement and justification! We do have free choice. If we did not have free choice we would be robots and God would hardly be glorified by a bunch of robots!

Jesus stated we were created to love, that love was the hook on which ALL the commandments and prophets hung (Love God....love your neighbor...). Love is not love if there is no choice. If you are programmed to love, it is simply a matter of your programming, not of your decision to commit to something or someone over and above yourself.

What is interesting is that we all want to love and be loved but it is impossible in its real sense outside of Christ.

He is the way and provides the way, for ALL of us. Yet so many refuse, preferring their 'own' way. (downhill is always easier than uphill anyway...) In so doing, they are denying themselves what they were created for, what they long for, and what they will then spend their lives trying either to do or to replace.

But Jesus did make atonement for all so that all could escape condemnation and be justified. He left no one out.

It's just that so many leave HIM out.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Fred the Baptist:
With all due respect and love, I would hope that there is room here for Universalism.

Sorry, Fred. Universalism is a damning heresy that has NO PLACE on the Baptist Board. It is against the Bible and against the basic doctrinal statement of the Baptist Board.

If espoused, it will be dealt with harshly. People read this who are not saved or who are immature/young believers and we will not allow a false plan of salvation to be presented.

Now if one wants to start a topic similar to "Bible Salvation v Infant Baptism" or "Bible Salvation v Works Salvation" and deal with "Universal Salvation", go for it. That puts it in context.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Helen:
All men are truly atoned for and justified through Christ.

Helen, that is wrong on so many levels, but truly wrong in definition. That is the universalism that I just wrote about to Fred.

IF "all men" sins are atoned for, all are saved. None will die in their sins (God is not a liar to atone for them and then not have the atonement cover them!).

IF "all men" are justified (declared righteous or just), all are saved. That is what salvation is all about! Romans 4-5 make it clear that this is NOT for "all men".

Now we aren't going to allow this to degenerate into fussing over who or how or such (go the the Calvin/Arminian forum and fire away) but suffice to say here that to say "all men are atoned for and justified" is 100% error.

The "through Christ" part - that there is NO atonement or justification without the death of our precious Lord, is 100% right on the money and MUST be emphasized here again and again.

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."
Acts 4:12

 

[TexasSky]

I believe that currently, God requires believe in Christ for salvation. I believe God when He says that He sent His message of salvation to all men. I believe ALL means ALL.

Ergo - I believe that adults must believe in Christ to be saved. What for me is "iffy" is "how they come to that knowledge" not whether they need to or not.

God is God.

If, at the end of time, He decides to change the requirements of salvation or announces we misunderstood Him - well, God is God.

 

[bapmom]

Can you imagine all the things God is going to announce we misunderstood Him about? There are so many topics that to us are cloudy.

 

[PamelaK]

Texas, I can't see how God could change His requirements for salvation at the end of time based on Hebrews 13:8.

 

[TexasSky]

Pamela,

I don't think He will change them, but I think God is God, and that He can do whatever He decides to do.

Subtle difference.

In the old testament the people lived under the Law. God chose to give mercy and thus sent Christ. He made that decision very very very early, centuries before Christ was born. We know that because the old testament predicts Christ.

Ergo, I don't think God will change the requirements, but, as Almighty God, He can do whatever He wants to do.

 

[Bro. James]

"All means All"--what about the many who have died never having heard the gospel? There are millions of pagans, past and present, who have not heard about Jesus. Did Jesus die for them?
Where do their spirits reside?

John 14:6 excludes many "faiths"--even some which are called "Christian".

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[PamelaK]

Texas,

I agree with you that God can do whatever He wants to do. However, we also know that not only is God unchangeable, God can not lie, and He has given us his requirement for salvation.