Can Preterists Even BEGIN To Make Their Case?

[agedman]

Against my better judgment, Robycop, I am going to answer your question, even though it will do no good. First your either/or question is pointless since you were given Biblical evidence - by me and others - and it didn't show up on your radar. So why write more?

In a nutshell, the core of your misunderstanding is that you think that a lack of visible evidences undermines our spiritual position. It doesn't. The Jews of the 1st century, also, kept looking for the Messiah who would accommodate to their worldly conceptions of Himself and His kingdom. Even the Disciples had to radically change their thinking in order to perceive Christ's message.

The "proof" you are looking for will never come.
Just like the earthly "messiah" the Jews were looking for never came.

And the Scriptures state that one of the evidences of last times is folks casting doubt about the literal physical return of Christ.

Such is being heard more and more.

Doesn’t mean the Lord will return right away, just another “sign” the Scriptures indicate will happen.

 

[TCassidy]

That's a long article - referring to genus, not genea.

And where do you think the Latin "genus" comes from? (Hint: Greek γενεα.)

John doesn't allow his students to quote Wiki - so we too will reject your contribution.

I had to bring it down to the "if it ain't online it ain't real" level.

And John does not allow his students to use Wikipedia as an authoritative source. But had you actually read what I posted you would have noted it was not Wikipedia. The quote was from Wiktionary.

 

[agedman]

And where do you think the Latin "genus" comes from? (Hint: Greek γενεα.)

I had to bring it down to the "if it ain't online it ain't real" level.

And John does not allow his students to use Wikipedia as an authoritative source. But had you actually read what I posted you would have noted it was not Wikipedia. The quote was from Wiktionary.

T, will they not reject because it is impossible for them to accept?

 

[TCassidy]

Matthew Poole sums this up nicely

5. The Ninevites, though upon the preaching of Jonah they made a show of repentance, yet returning to their former sins were soon after destroyed; so were the Jews within forty years after Christ’s ascension.

So those who were alive and saw the events told of in Jonah were still alive at the time of Christ?

That was a "sign to their own desire" the parallel is above and says except the sign of Jonah. They seen all the signs they needed to. The ressurection being the greatest and still did not believe so

Sorry but this is gibberish. You want to try again, and this time make sense?

If you translate genea race here then your saying the Jewish race will never get a sign?

Is the phrase "except for the sign of Jonah" really that hard for you to understand? The Jewish people (γενεα) will not get a sign "except the sign of Jonah."

The next verse Matthew 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.

Yes. Peter, James, and John saw Christ transfigured into His Glorified Body. Where the King was, the Kingdom was. Have you ever been on a US Navy ship, in port, when the Captain comes back on board? The MC1 announces (Ship's Name) aboard! Not the Captain's name, the ships name, because the Captain is the personification of the ship. So also is Christ the personification of His Kingdom.

I still have not seen clear evidence to genea referring to race.

I just gave you several verses, which, as I predicted, you would just ignore.

 

[TCassidy]

T, will they not reject because it is impossible for them to accept?

During my long tenured teaching career I found that some students were incapable of learning due to a closed mind and an unteachable spirit.

The greatest hindrance to learning is the idea "I already know all about that." And that thought usually springs from the mind that is so ignorant of the subject that they can't even understand how ignorant they are. They are ignorant of their ignorance.

And after trying to enlighten them, and seeing their minds are closed, I just take Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians 14:38 "But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant."

 

[agedman]

During my long tenured teaching career I found that some students were incapable of learning due to a closed mind and an unteachable spirit.

The greatest hindrance to learning is the idea "I already know all about that." And that thought usually springs from the mind that is so ignorant of the subject that they can't even understand how ignorant they are. They are ignorant of their ignorance.

And after trying to enlighten them, and seeing their minds are closed, I just take Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians 14:38 "But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant."

There is an actual long ago study on this.

Without bothering with citing but just to give a brief statement from my memory, the study concluded that starting about third grade there is a growing resistance that occurs in the brain to reorder (to gather new information requiring a reordering of facts).

We who have been teachers try to come up with ways to “get through to a person” and are often successful. But then there are the “Flintstone” family group that no amount of effort keeps them from the occupation of stone throwing at anything that might oblige them to actually mature in wisdom and knowledge.

 

[David Kent]

Is the phrase "except for the sign of Jonah" really that hard for you to understand? The Jewish people (γενεα) will not get a sign "except the sign of Jonah."

The sign of Jonah (three days and three nights) was symbolic of Christ's three days and three nights in the tomb. Fulfilled symbolically.

 

[agedman]

The sign of Jonah (three days and three nights) was symbolic of Christ's three days and three nights in the tomb. Fulfilled symbolically.

What....???

So, the Jewish rulers were right?

The disciples stole the body and propagated the myth of the resurrection?

 

[David Kent]

And the Scriptures state that one of the evidences of last times is folks casting doubt about the literal physical return of Christ.

Such is being heard more and more.

Doesn’t mean the Lord will return right away, just another “sign” the Scriptures indicate will happen.

Not a sign, a promise.

 

[David Kent]

What....???

So, the Jewish rulers were right?

The disciples stole the body and propagated the myth of the resurrection?

I can't see what that has to do with anything. Your post doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Covenanter]

And where do you think the Latin "genus" comes from? (Hint: Greek γενεα.)

I had to bring it down to the "if it ain't online it ain't real" level.

And John does not allow his students to use Wikipedia as an authoritative source. But had you actually read what I posted you would have noted it was not Wikipedia. The quote was from Wiktionary.

I did not mention Wikipedia - and we are quite capable of reading & understanding the sources we quote - to the extent we quote them. However the main thrust of our posts is Scripture aided by resources such as the www.blueletterbible.org NOT to impose an external, online source on Scripture, but to ensure that our posts are accurate.

Try to read what we write, rather than inflict your Humpty Dumpty language on us.

 

[Covenanter]

The sign of Jonah (three days and three nights) was symbolic of Christ's three days and three nights in the tomb. Fulfilled symbolically.

No , David - fulfilled literally - precisely as Jesus stated:

39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

 

[agedman]

I can't see what that has to do with anything. Your post doesn't make sense to me.

You posted that the resurrection was “symbolic” that means it never really happened.

So were the Jewish rulers correct in the rumor they spread that the disciples stole the body of Jesus?

The disciples decided to proclaim the resurrection as truth, but they were really pretending?

 

[agedman]

No , David - fulfilled literally - precisely as Jesus stated:

39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

So the resurrection isn’t symbolic but the return is?

 

[prophecy70]

so those who were alive and saw the events told of in Jonah were still alive at the time of Christ?

That really makes no sense. He gave that current generation the sign of Johan, Johan representing the Death and Resurrection, and then destruction on that Generation. I didn't know my explanation was that hard to grasp.

Sorry but this is gibberish. You want to try again, and this time make sense?

At what level should I explain this at?

Mark 8:12 He sighed deeply in his spirit, and said, “Why does this people seek a sign? Most certainly I tell you, no sign will be given to this people.”

Mark left out, "expect a sign of Jonah"
That current generation was seeking a sign, a sign they asked for, and Jesus said no sign is given but the sign of Jonah, explained above.

Yes. Peter, James, and John saw Christ transfigured into His Glorified Body. Where the King was, the Kingdom was. Have you ever been on a US Navy ship, in port, when the Captain comes back on board? The MC1 announces (Ship's Name) aboard! Not the Captain's name, the ships name, because the Captain is the personification of the ship. So also is Christ the personification of His Kingdom

So which of of them died before the transfiguration?

I just gave you several verses, which, as I predicted, you would just ignore.

Please show me what I ignored.

 

[David Kent]

• Luke 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

 

[agedman]

• Luke 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

Again you perceive “generation” as a period of time in which a certain age group is born and dies.

Yet, the word “generation” can also just as authoritatively be race, or family including decendents, dependents, and the deposited (those already deposited in the earth).

 

[prophecy70]

Again you perceive “generation” as a period of time in which a certain age group is born and dies.

Yet, the word “generation” can also just as authoritatively be race, or family including decendents, dependents, and the deposited (those already deposited in the earth).

Really, 2000 years the later the Jews are still being punished?

Or more fittingly, it was that current generation, you know the one that house was left desolate, the generation Jesus predicted the judgment on, the generation that actually rejected Jesus and put him to death?

Please show me how current generation does not work?

The only reason you need "race" to work is because you do not believe Matthew 24 to be something other than future.

 

[robycop3]

So which of of them died before the transfiguration?


.

Jesus didn't say any of them would die first, but ALL of them wer NOT present to see the Transfiguration. I believe you already knew that, but you wished to attempt to make an argument anyway. You simply don't wanna admit preterism is false, so ya keep trying to cut bunny trails to try to lead people off the right track.

 

[agedman]

Really so 2000 years the later the Jews are still being punished?

Or more fittingly, it was that current generation, you know the one that house was left desolate, the generation Jesus predicted the judgment on, the generation that actually rejected Jesus and put him to death?

Please show me how current generation does not work?

The only reason you need "race" to work is because you do not believe Matthew 24 to be something other than future.

Yep, because as Paul said, that is the overall Jewish condition until God is ready to move to the next step in His prophetic scheme.

Again, Time is no hindrance or benefit to God.

Already did, but you reject any other definition but the one you decide fits the scheme.

Doing so you manipulate Scriptures to the scheme rather than the scheme to s ruptures.