No, I'm not. But the choice of what happened was up to GOD.
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Can Preterists Even BEGIN To Make Their Case?
- Thread starter robycop3
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No, I'm not. But the choice of what happened was up to GOD.
I just posted God's promise to David in 2 Samuel that He was establishing David's dynasty FOREVER. That promise was UNCONDITIONAL. God knew Dave's descendants would sin, but He said one would be ruling Israelis FOREVER, no matter WHAT. And God re-iterated that promise in jeremiah 33, right before He had the Babylonians remove Zedekiah from the throne, so no one could say that was the end of Dave's dynasty. Now, you're free to believe whomever ya choose, ""but as for me & my house, we shall continue to believe GOD.""
Somewhere, some place on earth, there's a descendant of David's ruling over Israelis - HERE ON EARTH.
Jesus isn't directly ruling His kingdom right now, nor did He take the "throne of David" with Him to heaven. That's a tall tale.
The "throne of David" is the RULERSHIP, not a physical chair. Wherever that rulership now is on earth, Jesus is gonna take it over by His power and authority when He returns, and be its permanent occupant. Again, that's not something I made up; it's from the very word of GOD.
That's another strike against preterism - the prophecy that Jesus will rule the earth has not yet been fulfilled.
prophecy70
Active Member
Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
I believe the Bible. Not you.
prophecy70
Active Member
That's why the Jews rejected him. They are waiting for a Messiah to sit on a Earthly throne. But Jesus preached the kingdom of God is without observation.
LUKE 17:20
Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed
Matthew 26
I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.’ ”
And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” jJesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”
hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
The time was fulfilled. The kingdom was at hand.
No literal temple. No waiting for the kingdom. It came as promised. Don't act like the apostate Jews looking for a Earthly King.
The one thing you can count on from every preterist, is the obstinate unreasonableness when it comes to prophetic statements.
Taking the post factual, and placing them along Scriptures, the in 1070AD was the start of heaven.
Hey everybody!
According to preterist thinking, this world is heaven and as good as it gets!
So when Christ came spiritually in AD 70, where was His dead body? "The body without the spirit is dead" (James 2:26).
prophecy70
Active Member
"This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Mk. 13:30)
"The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Lk. 3:9)
"The end of all things is at hand" (I Peter 4:7)
"Even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour." (I Jn. 2:18)
be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand." (James. 5:8)
"in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay." (Heb. 10:37)
"These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Lk. 21:22)
"The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds. There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matthew 16:27-28)
Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23
4But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Daniel 12
Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. Rev 22:10
I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Rev 3:11
He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:20
56But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled. Matthew 26
64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26
So, please tell us where the Bible says Jesus took the throne of David with Him to heaven.
So, you don't believe Jesus is returning to rule the world?
Rev. 19:15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev. 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
OK, then, please show us some EVIDENCE these things have already occurred.
WHO was the "beast/man of sin" & WHO was the false prophet who worked with him?
Who committed the AOD?
What did the mark of the beast look like, & who issued it? (his NAME!)
When was all green grass burned up?
When was all life in the seas destroyed?
prophecy70
Active Member
So you are denying them verses?
prophecy70
Active Member
Acts 2
Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.34For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.” ’f
36“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’b —just as I have received authority from my Father.
Acts 15
15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16“ ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’b —
18things known from long ago.c
Psalms 110
1The Lord says to my lord:a
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
Where does it say he sits on David's throne on Earth?
James is referring to people - when we die, our spirit leaves the body. But our life does not end with death, because our spirit is our real & enduring humanity.
You have reasoned that that verse, considered with the doctrine of hypostatic union, means that Christ cannot appear to us except in a body, his resurrection body. The hypostatic union, that the Lord Jesus Christ at his incarnation assumed perfect manhood without losing hid perfect Deity. Perfect God & perfect man in one perfect being.
That perfect being, as man & for man, suffered & died on the cross, bearing the wrath of God for our salvation. Galatians 3. He rose from the died, never again to die. Romans 6.
Your suggestion that Jesus coming in AD 70 in fulfilment of his Olivet prophecy means separation of his body & spirit, thus such a coming implies his death, is an absolute violation of Scripture. In no way could that coming mean his death.
Paul dismisses such speculation about the nature of the resurrection body:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Jesus' incarnate body had extraordinary powers, including walking on water & controlling the weather by his voice. The risen Lord appeared in a human body, but with extraordinary qualities. And at his ascension assumed his glorious heavenly body:
John 6:61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Your whole argument is destroyed by Scripture, & by the doctrine of the hypostatic union you have made us aware of.
No, I'm denying your "take" of them.
Doc Cas & John of Japan have already taken care of the definition of genea, which shoots down much of your doctrine.
Now, please answer my question. It should be EASY for you IF the prophesied eschatological events have already occurred!
Gen. 49:10 “The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes, And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.
I believe we agree Shiloh is Jesus.
And Gabriel said to Mary:
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.”
So, Jesus was NOT yet on david's throne before He was born as a man. And we KNOW He shall return and REIGN here on earth.
So, another attempt to alter history flops. Try STUDYING your Bible and learn something!
You are not asterisktom. I want him to answer.
Jesus "released His spirit" on the cross (John 19:30, my translation). So, His spirit left His body, and the body died.
Are you saying that Jesus is not a Person? Because He is. And denying the personhood of Jesus is heresy.
Jesus "released His spirit" on the cross (John 19:30, my translation). So, His spirit left His body, and the body died.
So far so good.
No, I have not reasoned this. Stop misrepresenting me. You have completely missed the point. My argument is strictly that Jesus did not come "spiritually" in AD 70. No preterist says that Jesus came physically in AD 70 that I know of. But if Jesus did come in AD 70, He had to come physically, spirit and body and soul united, deity and humanity in one sublime Person. He could not have come spiritually without coming physically. It is a theological impossibility.
These passages nowhere say that Christ's resurrection body is dividable between spiritual and physical.
You are absolutely, completely and fatally wrong. You apparently don't even understand my argument, which is completely buttressed by the hypostatic union. What you are showing now is that you do not understand that doctrine, having just learned it from me.
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"Try STUDYING your Bible and learn something!"
So what does Scripture teach us about David's throne?
1 Chr. 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father...
Mat. 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”
They said to Him, “The Son of David.”
43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”’?
45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.
Mat. 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”
They said to Him, “The Son of David.”
43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”’?
45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.
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Can YOU answer?
What they did not understand, do you?
Because, I noticed you didn’t offer an explanation, either?
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