Can Satan be saved?

[J.D.]

If I understand the OP correctly, it is not asking what will happen, but what can happen. I don't think it's necessarily an idle point, but it compares, perhaps, to an engineer discussing dynamic problems with someone who has never studied calculus, or if Pythagoras could have a long talk with Einstein. Some things are just "set in stone," and they suit us well for our practical applications. But there is far more to it-- 'it' meaning everything possible in the given universe-- than we know on our level.

Actually, if it WILL happen then it MUST happen. But I like your observation. Let's focus on that - CAN Satan/demons be saved?

 

[npetreley]

Skeptic says: When you say their fate is sealed, do you mean that they have no opportunity or chance to be saved whatsoever? How is that fair?

What standard are you using to measure "fair"?

 

[J.D.]

I'm sorry everybody. :flower:

I was just picking around when I put that definition of "rhetorical". I shouldn't have done that.

Illocutionary means with the intent of the speaker. So that definition would better be stated...."sounds like the intent is to ask a question, but the underlying intent is to give a command, make a statement, or give an evaluation."

And I do not believe that the devil can be saved. Nor demons.

These beings were once in the presence of Almighty God. In fact, they were born or created in His presence. To have broken fellowship with Him when already IN His presence, is not the same as sinful man who has never seen God nor been in a His Holy presence in the perfection of heaven.

They were in the midst of the Perfection and Holiness of God and chose evil. :BangHead:

To be "saved" is to be in the presence of evil and to be evil and being brought into the midst of the Perfection and Holiness of God by the gift of grace.

Again, I'm sorry for picking at J.D.

Don't apologize for picking. You'll be hating me again before this thread is done. I'm going to drive home a point and you won't like it!

I don't see the difference you're making between Adam and Satan in this regard. Adam enjoyed fellowship with God. He was created upright and "perfect". Adam was in God's presence, as those whom He has saved will be in the future.

Your contention is that demons are somehow "worse" sinners than man, right? And for this, they get no chance to be saved? NO CHANCE? Is that fair?

Edit another question for Scarlett: Are you saying that Satan, or Adam, or both, chose evil?

 

[J.D.]

What standard are you using to measure "fair"?

Skeptic: Fair is everyone getting an equal chance.

 

[russell55]

If the fallen angels were to be saved, it would require an atonement being made for them, and there hasn't been one. Hebrews 2 tells us that the Son took on the nature of human beings in order to make atonement for them, but he did not take on the nature of angels in order to help them.

 

[J.D.]

If the fallen angels were to be saved, it would require an atonement being made for them, and there hasn't been one. Hebrews 2 tells us that took on the nature of human beings in order to make atonement for them, but he did not take on the nature of angels in order to help them.

Skeptic: WHY didn't Jesus take on the nature of angels to save them? Is that FAIR?

 

[npetreley]

Skeptic: Fair is everyone getting an equal chance.

The skeptic is wrong.

 

[russell55]

Skeptic: WHY didn't Jesus take on the nature of angels to save them? Is that FAIR?

How would we know why he didn't? We just know that he didn't.

How is that fair? Rebellion against God deserves condemnation. The fallen angels get what they deserve for their rebellion against God, and that's fair.

 

[KeithS]

Skeptic: Fair is everyone getting an equal chance.

Your definition of fair is inadequate. God does not promise "fairness" nor is it one of his attributes. God is just. God is righteous. God is good. God is holy. I don't remember God is fair being in the list...

 

[J.D.]

Rebellion against God deserves condemnation.

Skeptic: Didn't Adam rebel against God? How come he gets to be saved and Satan doesn't? Is that justice? Is that fair? Does Satan have any choice in the matter of his destiny?

 

[psalms109:31]

satan

Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

 

[AresMan]

Skeptic: Fair is everyone getting an equal chance.

Fairness would exclude mercy and grace.
If God were fair, we would all go to hell. No one would be saved.
Since God is not fair, and is a God of mercy and grace, He shows mercy and grace, and saves people from their sins who do not a wit deserve it, nor are in any manner capable of it.

 

[SBCPreacher]

No, that simply means that they can "believe in vain" like many around here. raying:

skypair

Care to name names?

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

I agree with your statements but I'm going to play the role of a skeptic for a while to make my point.

Skeptic says: When you say their fate is sealed, do you mean that they have no opportunity or chance to be saved whatsoever? How is that fair?

FAIR? Did you see what he did to Job? You hear of what goes on in the world -- most of it he did (God allowed him to, which still means he has free will...)! I'm glad Satan and his angels are the only beings on earth I don't have to forgive!

 

[JustChristian]

Let's pose some other questions:

1. If God's holiness and justice demands that every sin be punished, on what grounds would God save repentant demons?

2. Would the sins of wicked devils require that a sinless entity take their punishment for them, as Jesus did for humans?

3. Did Jesus' death on the cross atone for the sins of demons? Or even elect angels, for that matter?

The scriptures cited in other posts indicate that the answer to the OP is No.

What are "elect angels?" I know of nowhere in the Bible that angels are spoken as "elect" and nowhere that Christ's sacrifice applied to angels.

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

Back to that free will bit...I realized that if Satan does have free will and can still choose weither to do good or evil or not, that would explain why God lets him roam the earth, to prove that satan is walking himself to destruction! If he wanted to make the case that God is the one who is in the wrong, that God couldn't be trusted or isn't worth following, he could merely stop doing evil permantly, not just for a season and see weither God pardons him or not! However I don't think he wants to seeing that making that decision would put him back where he started, under God's feet....

 

[npetreley]

No, that simply means that they can "believe in vain" like many around here. raying:

skypair

Between statements like this, your accusations that people follow Calvin instead of Christ, and saying that if anyone disagrees with you they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit, I'm amazed you haven't been banned yet.

 

[russell55]

Skeptic: Didn't Adam rebel against God?

Yes, Adam rebelled against God. He was condemned for it. That's justice.

How come he gets to be saved and Satan doesn't?

It is God's prerogative to give mercy to whom he wishes.

Is that justice? Is that fair?

As long as no one receives less from God than they deserve, God is just.

Does Satan have any choice in the matter of his destiny?

He made the choice in the matter of his destiny when he rebelled against God.

 

[Rippon]

Before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels , I solemnly charge you to carry out these commands without prejudice or favoritism of any kind . ( 1 Timothy 5:21 NET ).

Now you know BB . Of course Christ's sacrifice did not apply to angels .

 

[Allan]

I chose to stay pretty much off the BB and just lurk for a time. However there are a 'few' threads recently which I have engaged for my own reasons but this is one I will do so only because there is a scripture that hasn't been brought up that speaks to this issue - IMO.

WHile it deals with men it's application is universal to both men AND angels to a point and may shed some light on this.

Hebrews 6

Hbr 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Note first: It is impossible for those who (have come to know and partake)...if they fall away, to renew them again.

This same principle of falling away thereby sealing them in condemnation can be applied to the Angelic Host with one difference.

We (as men) have to come to know these things because we are alienated from God and Life, and for THAT reason we CAN BE redeemed.

Angels ALREADY ARE in the presense of God, seeing God in all His glory and slendor, KNOWING already the truth of His Word and The Truth, His Word - Jesus.

They are already 'partakers' so to speak, and therefore if they should fall it is impossible to renew them.

How is Adam different than Satan in this. Scripture states that Adam walked with God in the Evening only. It doesn't state that God revealed Himself completely to Adam nor that Adam partook in ANY of the spiritual blessing that Christ redeemed men do. With maybe the exception of learning about God and being able to speak with God. However, these were and are a natural means wereby men gather and obtain information to aquire knowlegde and understanding which are, interestingly enough, filtered through our nature. Adams nature was not corrupted yet with sin so he COULD grow spritually in knowledge and understanding of God in the natural man unlike us. Our nature is contrary to God and all information we recieve through natural means are twisted becuase of our twisted nature away from God. And it is for that reason we can not KNOW God nor will we desire to, unless God bypass the natural man and spiritually reveal truth directly to us - but that is somewhat a different issue)

Adam was not enlightened to the knowledge of God as such, and did not taste the heavenly gift, and was not made a partaker of the Holy Ghost, and had not tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come. Therefore Adam COULD BE redeemed.

But Satan on the other hand. Was in the very presense of God, ministered before Him, saw the fulness of His glory, KNEW His Word and Power of God. He knew the truth and rejected it. So for him there is no redeption. He saw it all (no need for faith) and rejected it.

But that is my two cents.