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Can someone WANT to be saved but not be?
- Thread starter Skandelon
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Mar 10:17 ¶ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Mar 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
Mar 10:23 ¶ And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
The story of the Rich young Ruler immediately comes to mind....This fellow appeared to have genuine desire towards Salvation.....but simply not enough....not enough to do what it took. I think we can also see that Jesus wanted this too, hence my two bolded statements: Jesus desired the man's salvation.....the Young man desired it, but, had counted the cost and been unwilling to pay. :tear:
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Mar 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
Mar 10:23 ¶ And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
The story of the Rich young Ruler immediately comes to mind....This fellow appeared to have genuine desire towards Salvation.....but simply not enough....not enough to do what it took. I think we can also see that Jesus wanted this too, hence my two bolded statements: Jesus desired the man's salvation.....the Young man desired it, but, had counted the cost and been unwilling to pay. :tear:
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
I'll let John Piper exegete it because he does an excellent job of it- http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper96/10-13-96.htm
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
I'll let John Piper exegete it because he does an excellent job of it- http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper96/10-13-96.htm
Jn6:37 All given shall come.....
Mt 7 21-24....those who come from impure motives.and not drawn by the Spirit...will be rejected not knowingthe Lord by God given faith......they have a false faith,a mere human trust....not saving faith....they were not given or planted by the Father.
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Some want a fire escape out of hell...but they do NOT want to be saved from their sins
Wanting forgiveness and salvation won't save anyone unless they call upon the Lord in repentance and ask for it. If they can't speak, they can ask in their mind.
I could want a cold drink, but won't have it unless I go and get it. Nothing comes to us by simply wanting it. I want to be out of debt, but that won't happen unless I do something about it.
preacher4truth
Active Member
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.'" John 6:37
All that want to be saved (from their sins, not given heaven as a home to go on and live in sin, not to be 'saved' to gain wealth &c) will be saved as the Father does draw all of His elect to Him and none shall be lost; cf 2 Timothy 2:8-10.
Therefore none of His who want saved from sin will be lost. Those wanting saved from other things (finances, an escape from hell by praying a prayer, 'free willing themselves into the Kingdom &c) are simply misunderstanding what salvation is all about.
Only God quickens, saves, regenerates. Only the elect will desire true salvation, therefore none who want to be saved by the biblical true definition will be refused. Not one.
All that want to be saved (from their sins, not given heaven as a home to go on and live in sin, not to be 'saved' to gain wealth &c) will be saved as the Father does draw all of His elect to Him and none shall be lost; cf 2 Timothy 2:8-10.
Therefore none of His who want saved from sin will be lost. Those wanting saved from other things (finances, an escape from hell by praying a prayer, 'free willing themselves into the Kingdom &c) are simply misunderstanding what salvation is all about.
Only God quickens, saves, regenerates. Only the elect will desire true salvation, therefore none who want to be saved by the biblical true definition will be refused. Not one.
4 One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to enquire in his temple.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed
Matthew 7:21- "Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter." :smilewinkgrin:
freeatlast
New Member
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Calvinists often equate God's choice to bless Jacob over Esau with to God's choice to save Jacob and not Esau, but Hebrews 12:16 says, "See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears."
He desires the blessing with tears and yet he was rejected. How do Calvinists explain this if indeed only the elect would want to be saved?
He desires the blessing with tears and yet he was rejected. How do Calvinists explain this if indeed only the elect would want to be saved?
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But it doesn't say "Everyone who wants to call on the name of the Lord will be saved..." Only those who actually, genuinely call on the Lord via faith and repentance.
Of course the sinner can WANT to be saved. The problem is, they are unable. The unregenerate heart wants to be saved on its own terms. It doesn't want to come via a repentant faith. Perhaps it is self -righteous and prideful, and believes it can be saved on its own strength. Perhaps it loves its sin, and therefore forms a God in its own image, who likes the things that it likes, and hates the things that it hates.
Regardless, N
NE wants to go to hell. The unregenerate is just unwilling to surrender to Christ, to be saved on God's terms.I second that.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Yes, someone can truly want to be saved, and yet be lost....
"Mr Lost man" very much wants to be saved. He fears hell and desires to be saved.
God has drawn him, God is continuing to lovingly "woo" him to come to faith in Christ. He is under conviction.
This goes goes on for a substantial amout of time, over and over again.
The man simply cant get past the fact that his life will change, he will become a new person, and he will become a "Jesus freak".
He simply can not get past that issue. He is not willing to "count the cost" as the scriptures advise.
He is given the same CHOICE that everyone is given, and yet his pride and self-sufficiency caused his downfall.
Very sad.
"Mr Lost man" very much wants to be saved. He fears hell and desires to be saved.
God has drawn him, God is continuing to lovingly "woo" him to come to faith in Christ. He is under conviction.
This goes goes on for a substantial amout of time, over and over again.
The man simply cant get past the fact that his life will change, he will become a new person, and he will become a "Jesus freak".
He simply can not get past that issue. He is not willing to "count the cost" as the scriptures advise.
He is given the same CHOICE that everyone is given, and yet his pride and self-sufficiency caused his downfall.
Very sad.
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Agreed.
Doesn't your doctrine teach they must be given this faith to use? It matters not if there is a desire if it is an impossibility.
. Agreed as to why they don't come
Back to ability. One cannot be unwilling if one is unable. There is no will involved without ability.Regardless, N
No. I don't see any scriptural warrant to support God rejecting someone who genuinely repents and comes to Him by faith (Rom. 10:13). God does harden the hearts of the unrepentant (Rom. 9:18), but they have no desire to come to Him.
The unwillingness of the reprobate stems from a nature that is at war with God. It's not the same as a lack of desire (although the two are kissing cousins). Romans 1:32 displays the depth of depravity and rebellion in the unrepentant heart. God gave that person over to such reprobation, ergo their inability to repent. The innate knowledge of good and evil (Rom. 1:31) displays their unwillingness to repent. So, you have working side-by-side a person who God has given over to reprobation and who also is unwilling to repent.
God only gave them over once they exchanged the truth for a lie, which alludes to ability. They weren't turned over due to their nature, but what choice they made with their nature.
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