There was a time when I taught classes to men and women I was discipling and used the books sold by convention press. Most of them are no longer available. That was a decision made by the leaders.
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Can Sunday School be saved?
- Thread starter gb93433
- Start date
I think that if the churches will return to teaching the word of God in Sunday school and the pulpit then perhaps God will spare what we call Sunday school.
perhaps its because the pulpit usually takes a broader/survey approach to bible, while SS class would get into more specific doctrines ?
Do you mean the one that is read but not lived out? James 1:22, "But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves."you mean the ones that were "watered down"?
I find that about 2% or less of the people during the time the NT was written could read. So they must have been led by doers and not just hearers.
I have had pastors tell me that they could not preach what I do. I have seen so many that do not have the guts to go against the political tide of their denomination even when presented with the truth.perhaps its because the pulpit usually takes a broader/survey approach to bible, while SS class would get into more specific doctrines ?
freeatlast
New Member
perhaps its because the pulpit usually takes a broader/survey approach to bible, while SS class would get into more specific doctrines ?
I don't see eather one being correct. In most churches both lean towards non teaching.
I don't see eather one being correct. In most churches both lean towards non teaching.
My experiences in churches are that they tend to teach "general" topics on Sunday , and that the SS classes go more into depth!
glfredrick
New Member
My experiences in churches are that they tend to teach "general" topics on Sunday , and that the SS classes go more into depth!
You are welcome to come and hear me preach. I will bring some stuff that will cause you to reconsider...
I'm preaching a series through 1 Peter right now.
Fear of the leaders and/or congregation is often why.My experiences in churches are that they tend to teach "general" topics on Sunday , and that the SS classes go more into depth!
freeatlast
New Member
You are welcome to come and hear me preach. I will bring some stuff that will cause you to reconsider...
I'm preaching a series through 1 Peter right now.
How about a link to a sermon? I would love to here at least one.
glfredrick
New Member
How about a link to a sermon? I would love to here at least one.
I do not have any recorded, but that is coming soon. I am working on a way of linking my sermons online.
I can post a manuscript but readers would have to realize that I do not always preach what I write prior to delivering the sermon, nor do I preach from my manuscript once it is complete. I write out the entire sermon to make sure that I have covered the bases that the Text requires and that my thoughts, context, and exegesis are in order, then I preach covered by prayer and the Holy Spirit.
As soon as I get internet at my home I'll see what I can do... We just moved (second half, from storage to house) and I'm still living out of boxes and using a laptop with no web connection.
Fear of the leaders and/or congregation is often why.
Think in the cirles that I have been around, its more like the serive gets 'watered down" as more focused on chuck swindoll, biblical principles and practical application, and more "meaty" in SS classes! As it there that we tend to be able to get more in depth!
I have a dear relative who attends a mainline church, having left the Baptists and the whole evangelical movement for quite a succinct reason:
He wants to have a family life.
When the churches began moving to "small groups" instead of SS, they swallowed whole cloth the idea of the church being one big extended family and finding all one's social life within the church. You know the drill, church softball league, men's fraternity, women's meetings, teens, kids, choir, everybody always on the run to somewhere other than the home.
His job did the same, and the kids' schools had the same expectations.
He looked at the fact the kids' SS were more craft than Bible times anyway, and decided enough was enough.
He's active out in the community--where the lost are--sharing his faith.
Takes his kids to church BUT sees the home as the primary teaching place for passing on the faith.
He says if he finds a Baptist (or evangelical) church that will trust him to walk closely with the Lord, study his Bible, and serve in the community without fracturing his family he'll be back.
Until then he's found a mainline church with ONE service per week, no midweek expectations or extraneous social club activities, takes his family and is doing quite an admirable job living out his faith.
Sometimes less is more.
He wants to have a family life.
When the churches began moving to "small groups" instead of SS, they swallowed whole cloth the idea of the church being one big extended family and finding all one's social life within the church. You know the drill, church softball league, men's fraternity, women's meetings, teens, kids, choir, everybody always on the run to somewhere other than the home.
His job did the same, and the kids' schools had the same expectations.
He looked at the fact the kids' SS were more craft than Bible times anyway, and decided enough was enough.
He's active out in the community--where the lost are--sharing his faith.
Takes his kids to church BUT sees the home as the primary teaching place for passing on the faith.
He says if he finds a Baptist (or evangelical) church that will trust him to walk closely with the Lord, study his Bible, and serve in the community without fracturing his family he'll be back.
Until then he's found a mainline church with ONE service per week, no midweek expectations or extraneous social club activities, takes his family and is doing quite an admirable job living out his faith.
Sometimes less is more.
Most likely the preachers grew up during the time of DIY books. The problem is that few are smart enough to know when they should not do it themselves. So many want answers to their problems just so they can survive and not to health. It was not too many years ago that I took the leaders of the church I was pastoring through a survey of the OT and NT in 26 weeks. Their homework required about 7 hours per week of study. I took them through basic discipleship, OT and NT survey, basic hermeneutics, and how to do Bible study in a two year period. It was amazing what happened and how the people became excited and starting sharing their faith because they had something to share. During that time we had a man visit who complained about the sugar water in other churches. So I invited him to the study. He came on the week we were doing Isaiah and commented about how we were serious. He never returned. We more serious than him and was faced with his complaint.Think in the cirles that I have been around, its more like the serive gets 'watered down" as more focused on chuck swindoll, biblical principles and practical application, and more "meaty" in SS classes! As it there that we tend to be able to get more in depth!
I think that if the churches will return to teaching the word of God in Sunday school and the pulpit then perhaps God will spare what we call Sunday school.
I agree, though I would have changed it from save Sunday School to "revive the church".
My theory is based on what we see in Nehemiah, especially chapter 8. I wonder what would happen if we preached from 9:30-10:30 and then had small groups (S.S. if you will) from 11:00-12:00. Instead of ordering massive amounts of questionable SS material, what if the groups had leaders that just helped the people understand the Scripture that was just preached?
It seems as long as the Jews did this they were doing well. When they added all the outside junk...well....not so much.
When God decides to make me a senior pastor in a church I plan to test my theory.
glfredrick
New Member
I agree, though I would have changed it from save Sunday School to "revive the church".
My theory is based on what we see in Nehemiah, especially chapter 8. I wonder what would happen if we preached from 9:30-10:30 and then had small groups (S.S. if you will) from 11:00-12:00. Instead of ordering massive amounts of questionable SS material, what if the groups had leaders that just helped the people understand the Scripture that was just preached?
It seems as long as the Jews did this they were doing well. When they added all the outside junk...well....not so much.
When God decides to make me a senior pastor in a church I plan to test my theory.
You have described, essentially, what we did at Sojourn Church in Louisville.
We have NO Sunday school at all. We have NO formal discipleship at all. We have NO quarterlies, NO teachers, and NO meetings at the church building(s) except worship and necessary business or activies meetings (in other words no organized teaching times).
Yet, our people are well-versed in the Scriptures, and more, they LIVE what they know. We DO meet in homes with a pastor-level individual (couple actually) who lead that group. There, the last week's sermon is discussed, taken apart, and lived out. There also happens fellowship, the start of church discipline, ministry, and the other functions that might be covered in any number of meetings at a normal church.
The church is growing rapidly -- very rapidly -- and our average attendance now runs past 2800 on any given Sunday of the year with high attendance Sundays reaching close to 4000! Our membership numbers are lower than attendance numbers -- something that most congregations could not fathom -- we see roughly 1000 VISITORS or MEMBERS IN WAITING on any average Sunday!
And, yes, now that I've taken the pulpit of a struggling congregation in Wisconsin I will apply those tactics to grow my new congregation. I am insstituting the first phases of the transformation now during my first sermon series, which for the FIRST time in the history of this congregation (1970s) is exegetical verse-by-verse. You should SEE how the people are responding!
Phase two is to dump the SS materials and start writing my own stuff that matches the sermons. Along with that comes an overhaul of the business structure of the church. Everyone HATES business meetings and yet they endure them because that is what they have always done. I am going to suggest change that will be positive and yet retain the congregational aspects of the church.
Phase three is to start a new congregation somewhere close by, if only as a mother church partner.
After that, we'll see what God does! He is behind this effort and brought me here with these concepts in mind, so I fee confident that He will see the transformation through to His glory!
It's not even called Sunday School at my church--just Bible study. Personally I like that better.
That is what we do as well.
You have described, essentially, what we did at Sojourn Church in Louisville.
We have NO Sunday school at all. We have NO formal discipleship at all. We have NO quarterlies, NO teachers, and NO meetings at the church building(s) except worship and necessary business or activies meetings (in other words no organized teaching times).
Yet, our people are well-versed in the Scriptures, and more, they LIVE what they know. We DO meet in homes with a pastor-level individual (couple actually) who lead that group. There, the last week's sermon is discussed, taken apart, and lived out. There also happens fellowship, the start of church discipline, ministry, and the other functions that might be covered in any number of meetings at a normal church.
The church is growing rapidly -- very rapidly -- and our average attendance now runs past 2800 on any given Sunday of the year with high attendance Sundays reaching close to 4000! Our membership numbers are lower than attendance numbers -- something that most congregations could not fathom -- we see roughly 1000 VISITORS or MEMBERS IN WAITING on any average Sunday!
And, yes, now that I've taken the pulpit of a struggling congregation in Wisconsin I will apply those tactics to grow my new congregation. I am insstituting the first phases of the transformation now during my first sermon series, which for the FIRST time in the history of this congregation (1970s) is exegetical verse-by-verse. You should SEE how the people are responding!
Phase two is to dump the SS materials and start writing my own stuff that matches the sermons. Along with that comes an overhaul of the business structure of the church. Everyone HATES business meetings and yet they endure them because that is what they have always done. I am going to suggest change that will be positive and yet retain the congregational aspects of the church.
Phase three is to start a new congregation somewhere close by, if only as a mother church partner.
After that, we'll see what God does! He is behind this effort and brought me here with these concepts in mind, so I fee confident that He will see the transformation through to His glory!
I know of a pastor in SD that goes thought by thought, as opposed to verse by verse. A few years ago he told the church he was praying about retiring. So on Sunday mornings he was going through the leadership qualities Paul wrote Timothy and then during Sunday and Wednesday night Bible studies they were looking at the same issue in Titus. He was using the Word to prepare them for their next pastor search.
I have doing that for years in the churches I pastored. It was not always well received by the "old guard".Yet, our people are well-versed in the Scriptures, and more, they LIVE what they know. We DO meet in homes with a pastor-level individual (couple actually) who lead that group. There, the last week's sermon is discussed, taken apart, and lived out. There also happens fellowship, the start of church discipline, ministry, and the other functions that might be covered in any number of meetings at a normal church.