can we loose salvation ......

[soninme]

I believe this verse states that we cannot.

1 John 2
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

There is something very wonderful in this verse which we should not overlook .
"And if anyone sins , we have an advocate with the father " It does not say with GOD , but rather with the FATHER.
He is still our father even if we sin .
This reminds us of the blessed truth that though sin in a believers life breaks fellowship , it does not break relationship .
When a person is born again , he becomes a child of god . god is henceforth his father , and NOTHING can ever affect that relationship . A birth is something that can never be undone . A son may disgrace his father , but he still son by fact of BIRTH .

Notice that our advocate is Jesus Christ the righteous.
It is good to have a righteous defender . when satan brings accusations against a believer , the lord Jesus can point to his finished work on calvary and say , "Charge that to my account " .

 

[Agnus_Dei]

The verse isn’t talking about losing salvation, the point is if John’s audience who are Christians sin, they have an advocate. John also says that if any man says he doesn’t sin is a liar.

So we can draw a conclusion that there were some among them who believed that once they were saved, they couldn’t sin anymore, John puts this to rest, by calling them liars. Then John reaffirms his audience that if any man does sin, they still have an advocate in Christ Jesus and that He’s faithful to forgive them.

Just b/c a man is saved, doesn’t mean His freewill is taken away. He can still choose to turn his back on God and that relationship, just as my wife can choose to turn her back on me and our relationship and walk away…I’ll still love her and desire a relationship with her and like the prodigal son, welcome her back, but in the mean time, she’s turn her back on me and is lost.

ICXC NIKA
-

 

[EdSutton]

Yep!

In answer to the thread title.

Can't lose it, though! :thumbs:

Ed

 

[soninme]

The verse isn’t talking about losing salvation, the point is if John’s audience who are Christians sin, they have an advocate. John also says that if any man says he doesn’t sin is a liar.

So we can draw a conclusion that there were some among them who believed that once they were saved, they couldn’t sin anymore, John puts this to rest, by calling them liars. Then John reaffirms his audience that if any man does sin, they still have an advocate in Christ Jesus and that He’s faithful to forgive them.

Just b/c a man is saved, doesn’t mean His freewill is taken away. He can still choose to turn his back on God and that relationship, just as my wife can choose to turn her back on me and our relationship and walk away…I’ll still love her and desire a relationship with her and like the prodigal son, welcome her back, but in the mean time, she’s turn her back on me and is lost.

ICXC NIKA
-

thats your view angus , god bless you my friend , but i disagree.

 

[Rubato 1]

If you can lose it, it is not salvation. When a catastrphe strikes, either a person is saved, or he is not. Those who were saved from Katrina cannot go back and become unsaved from Katrina. This violates the definition of the word.

 

[Zenas]

Agnus, you're right on as you usually are. As long as we're quoting scripture, how about this?

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20.

How can it be any plainer that Christians can exercise their free will, turn their back on God and lose their salvation?

 

[Zenas]

If you can lose it, it is not salvation. When a catastrphe strikes, either a person is saved, or he is not. Those who were saved from Katrina cannot go back and become unsaved from Katrina. This violates the definition of the word.

Sorry Rubato, your premise is wrong. Katrina is in the past. Hell is in the future for all who are not saved. Consider the prodigal son. He was saved as long as he was with his father. Then he left his father and was lost. Later, he realized the error or his ways, returned home and became saved again. He was saved, then he became lost, then he was saved again.

 

[billwald]

Problem is the pronouns. There is no objective test for one's regeneration/salvation except continuing good works as 1 John points out.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe this verse states that we cannot.

1 John 2
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

There is something very wonderful in this verse which we should not overlook .
"And if anyone sins , we have an advocate with the father " It does not say with GOD , but rather with the FATHER.
He is still our father even if we sin .

Certainly it does not teach that each time you sin - you lose salvation.

But those who do not hold to the tradition of OSAS generally do not claim that "each time you sin you are lost".

However to "TEST" OSAS you need a text that actually addresses points like the following -

1. Can you have your forgiveness revoked? (Matt 18)
2. After being joined to Christ can you be "severed from Christ"? (Gal 5)
3. After entering into salvation and under grace can you "Fall from Grace"? (Gal 5)
4. After being united to Christ in the VINE of Christ - can you be "cut off", spiritual die, and then burn? (John 15:1-7)
5. After being joined to the body of Christ by faith - can you be removed for "unbelief" just like the unbelieving Jews? (Rom 11)
6. Once God has removed someone from the body of Christ - from union with Christ -- can he "restore them once again if they do not continue in UNBELIEF"? (Rom 11)

In otherwords IF go to texts that explicitly deal with these subjects and they teach an OSAS friendly view that "no such thing can possibly happen" THEN you have actual Bible support for OSAS.

Seems like a good exercise for the unbiased objective reader.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[KJVkid]

If you can lose your Salvation then it is "your" Salvation. Who the Lord Jesus Saves He keeps!

 

[BobRyan]

Another Example - John 4 and 1John 4:14 both proclaim Christ as "The Savior of the World" -- does that mean that nobody will be lost?

We can "push the positive" as far as we like. But then we have to note that there is a boundary for testing the negative of that extreme assumption. For example in Matt 7 God says that it is the "FEW" that are saved and the "MANY" that are lost.

Now we have "balance" we can not push the positive so far - to such an extreme that it contradicts the plain boundary statements showing that not all WILL be saved. So yes Christ IS the Savior of the WHOLE WORLD -- but that does not mean the WHOLE WORLD will accept salvation offerred. They must choose to accept and as it turns out (Matt 7) only the FEW do that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

If you can lose your Salvation then it is "your" Salvation. Who the Lord Jesus Saves He keeps!

This is an interesting word game -- but the test cases listed above remain to be addressed.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[KJVkid]

I don't believe the poster wanted to know if folks would get saved they wanted to know if Salvation could be lost. The answer to that question is NO!

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

He was saved, then he became lost, then he was saved again.

IF that were possible (and it's not) then Jesus would have to die on the cross again.

IT IS FINISHED...

 

[BobRyan]

Certainly it does not teach that each time you sin - you lose salvation.

But those who do not hold to the tradition of OSAS generally do not claim that "each time you sin you are lost".

However to "TEST" OSAS you need a text that actually addresses points like the following -

1. Can you have your forgiveness revoked? (Matt 18)
2. After being joined to Christ can you be "severed from Christ"? (Gal 5)
3. After entering into salvation and under grace can you "Fall from Grace"? (Gal 5)
4. After being united to Christ in the VINE of Christ - can you be "cut off", spiritual die, and then burn? (John 15:1-7)
5. After being joined to the body of Christ by faith - can you be removed for "unbelief" just like the unbelieving Jews? (Rom 11)
6. Once God has removed someone from the body of Christ - from union with Christ -- can he "restore them once again if they do not continue in UNBELIEF"? (Rom 11)

In otherwords IF go to texts that explicitly deal with these subjects and they teach an OSAS friendly view that "no such thing can possibly happen" THEN you have actual Bible support for OSAS.

Seems like a good exercise for the unbiased objective reader.

in Christ,

Bob

The point being that "opinions may vary" on almost any doctrine -- it is always easy to take one part of the boundary defining texts and push them to a limit (by extreme implication) that the remaining texts on the subject will not allow.

When "I will never leave you or forsake you" is taken to the exclusion of the clear examples of the warnings given above -- you have a problem

When it is taken in a way to contradict the "Perseverance" texts you have another problem.

And it is done that way "all the time".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DeafPosttrib]

"It is Finished" doesn't mean that all our sins are all paid at once. It means, all prophecies of O.T. were fulfilled , these were concerning of Jesus Christ and calvary. Also, Christ put daily sacrifice to end. he destroyed it - Dan. 9:27. Alos, while Christ yielded up his soul(ghost), at the same time, the veil of the temple was tore down from top to bottom, shows that Christ ended it.

There are plenty of verses in Bible showing us these are conditional salvation with warnings. Throughout from Genesis to Revelation show lot of conditional salvation with warnings. We cannot afford neglect them, we should take heed what God's word saying, and to follow them.

John 10:27-29 is speak of God's sheep who hear and FOLLOW, long as they are remain in Christ's hand - secure. Unless, if a sheep stopped follow Christ, then Christ would loose sheep(person) out of his hand. Same as example of prodigal son of Luke 15:11-32. Christ said, if a son remain in the dark and never return back to his father, then he would be remain lost and dead - Luke 15:32. Unless, person repents.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[KJVkid]

Dear BobRyan, I won't argue this with a SDA! The greatest need you have sir is knowing and believing "Jesus Saves." You don't have to worry yourself about losing Salvation. God Loves you.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

IAB17,
In regards to the idea that one can be saved, then lose, then saved again you said...

IF that were possible (and it's not) then Jesus would have to die on the cross again.

IT IS FINISHED...

Your statement confuses the objective work of Christ with the subjective appropriation of that work by the believer. In other words, if one presses your logic then one of two conclusions must result:
(1)Universalism--everyone now (since the Crucifixion) is automatically saved; or
(2)The Elect is now (since the Crucifixion) automatically saved--which would be a variant of Calvinism.

 

[KJVkid]

WOW! Are there ever a lot of mixed up people on this section!

 

[Rubato 1]

Sorry Rubato, your premise is wrong. Katrina is in the past. Hell is in the future for all who are not saved.

This has nothing to do with the price of gas in Brazil.

Consider the prodigal son. He was saved as long as he was with his father. Then he left his father and was lost. Later, he realized the error or his ways, returned home and became saved again. He was saved, then he became lost, then he was saved again.

You completely made this up. Who says he was saved then lost then saved? The Bible says "was lost, now is found." Doesn't my premise at least have the support of a dictionary?