can we loose salvation ......

[BobRyan]

That Romans 11:11 is especially good at making sure that we remember that this IS talking about "salvation".

Thanks for the post.

It is no wonder then that I included Romans 11 in this list

Originally Posted by BobRyan
I "feel" that Romans 11 is true (just exactly as you quoted it) even though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

I "feel" that Matt 18 is true when it speaks to "forgiveness revoked" even though the OSAS traditions of men reject it.

I "Feel" that John 15:1-8 speaking of the vines IN CHRIST that are REMOVED from Christ and burned up -- is true even though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

I "feel" that the Ezek 18 examples of salvation lost are true EVEN though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

I also agree with you that the promises in scripture for "perseverance" are for the Christian and we do have the promise of God's power in our walk in Christ. As God says in 1Cor 10 "NO temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man and God is FAITHFUL who will not ALLOW you to be tempted BEYOND that which YOU are able". But man has free will and can choose to reject the abundantly available way-of-escape provided by God, as so often happens.

 

[charles_creech78]

That Romans 11:11 is especially good at making sure that we remember that this IS talking about "salvation".

Thanks for the post.

It is no wonder then that I included Romans 11 in this list

Ro 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy . Ya we are the gentiles. But this has nothing to do with us losing our salvation. I never said it was not about salvaton I said it was not about us losing our salvation. Which is the way you was putting it. I guess you findly read all of it because there is not much you can say.

 

[BobRyan]

Clearly the context for Rom 11 "is salvation" and the "GAIN of the gentiles" in Romans 11 is "Salvation" and the FALL of the Jews is in reference to salvation and the "the Standing by FAITH" is in reference to salvation.

The "neither will he spare you" comment is made to the Gentiles who are grafted in -- the place from which the Jews fell.

And the "obviously" the warning given in that chapter is ALSO "in reference to salvation".

I am going to have to stick with scripture on this one.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Some one explain how man, who is mortal and finite, can undo what only God, who is immortal and infinite, can do in the first place? Is not the sacrifice of Christ not enough to secure salvation?

Interesting spin -- but the Bible is clear on this topic.

In Romans 11 "neither will He spare you" warning given even though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

In Matt 18 "forgiveness revoked" warning given even though the OSAS traditions of men reject it.

In John 15:1-8 God warns of vines IN CHRIST that are REMOVED from Christ and burned up -- and this is true even though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

In Ezek 18 warning given by way of examples of salvation lost are true EVEN though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[charles_creech78]

Interesting spin -- but the Bible is clear on this topic.

In Romans 11 "neither will He spare you" warning given even though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

In Matt 18 "forgiveness revoked" warning given even though the OSAS traditions of men reject it.

In John 15:1-8 God warns of vines IN CHRIST that are REMOVED from Christ and burned up -- and this is true even though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

In Ezek 18 warning given by way of examples of salvation lost are true EVEN though the OSAS traditions of men need to reject it.

in Christ,

Bob

Are you even baptist?

 

[BobRyan]

I am not allowed to be one - and still be a member of my church.

However - we do have a number who have posted here on the "OSAS is bad doctrine" threads that DO list themselves as Baptists and claim to be Arminian -- and do not hold to the errors of OSAS. (If that is what you are asking about).

in Christ,

Bob

 

[charles_creech78]

I am not allowed to be one - and still be a member of my church.

However - we do have a number who have posted here on the "OSAS is bad doctrine" threads that DO list themselves as Baptists and claim to be Arminian -- and do not hold to the errors of OSAS. (If that is what you are asking about).

in Christ,

Bob

Ok I know you don't believe in OSAS. I see that you believe we can lose our salvation to. I just want to know if we can lose our salvation, How do we keep ourself from falling from salvation. I know myself that I can do nothing with out God. and I know I can't keep my salvation myself. I can't save myself neither. And you tell me that I can lose all of this. So I lose it because God let me lose it. Like I said I cannot do any of it with out him. What is the point in being born again? Do you believe he can keep us from doing the things we did before we was born again? and do we go to hell if we lose our salvation. I am going to pray about this.

 

[DHK]

Romans 11
Ro 11:1 -36
He is talking about "Israel being the natural branch they where broken of because unbeleif. This is what he said to us.Ro 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, (Israel) take heed lest he also spare not thee. That has nothing to do with being Born again and losing our salvation. Read it again and study it. You are looking at it wrong. Israel was cut of because of unbeleif and we shall be cut of to if we do not believe.

Just a suggestion Charles.
You posted 36 verses--all of them double-spaced at that!
That took up quite a bit of bandwith making such a long post. We all have Bibles. Why not just quote the parts of the passages that you are referring to, instead of an entire chapter? After all you are on page 29 and this thread will be closed on page 30.
You are simply hastening its demise!

 

[charles_creech78]

Just a suggestion Charles.
You posted 36 verses--all of them double-spaced at that!
That took up quite a bit of bandwith making such a long post. We all have Bibles. Why not just quote the parts of the passages that you are referring to, instead of an entire chapter? After all you are on page 29 and this thread will be closed on page 30.
You are simply hastening its demise!

I posted all that because some people don't read all of it together. So you know what it is best if you go ahead and close it because I really don't care anymore DHK. Well I was posting against BobRyans post telling him what the scripture was really saying. He did not seem to read the hole thing. And he was saying OSAS is a tradition to men. But I guess you agree with it so.I explain why I put all of it up so stop getting on to me about it. I have seen you do the same thing. My point is my point and I did not know we had a RULE on here that we could not do this. You don't have to tell me DHK you don't like me I can see it in your posts. I am done posting on BB. I am done with the hate that I fill from you and TinyTim. I am about loving one another. And I clearly don't see it from some of you. I have been told I am unlearn by both of you. I will not fight with you on this. I guess it is ok for someone like you with that higher power to do something like this. I love all of you but I am very done with this.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Read my trailer.

Apply to one's self as needed.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Are you even baptist?

BobRyan is a Seventh Day Adventist, as his personal data clearly states.

IMHO Sevent Day Adventists are a main stream denomination.

Jesus Saves, so only Jesus can un-save.
While 'un-save' might have some meaning, what is the meaning of these terms?

un-redeemed
un-born-again
un-sainted
un-bodied of Christ
un-Bride-ed of Christ
un-membered of the Church
un-elected
un-regenerated
un-eternally saved
un-bought with a price

Security of the Believer
Underwritten by Messiah Jesus


Jesus Saves, Jesus does not un-save.

 

[DHK]

I posted all that because some people don't read all of it together. So you know what it is best if you go ahead and close it because I really don't care anymore DHK.

It is not a rule, only a suggestion. Even when you post long passages of Scripture without any comment in between people don't tend to read them. I don't think I have ever posted such a long passage of Scripture without giving some commentary on each verse as I quote it.

Well I was posting against BobRyans post telling him what the scripture was really saying. He did not seem to read the hole thing.

That is my point precisely. And I didn't read it either, even though you posted it. But I did find your comments at the bottom and I did read what you had to say. That is what I am interested it: what you have to say on the Scriptures. I am already well acquainted with the chapter, and if I need to read it again I can read it in my Bible. Or if you want to refresh my memory to one verse that you are explaining that is always a good thing to do.

And he was saying OSAS is a tradition to men. But I guess you agree with it so.

Definitely not. I agree with you all the way. My post was not meant as an offence. It was a suggestion to make it more readable to others. My wife tells me that she won't read any long posts. It is hard on her eyes.

I explain why I put all of it up so stop getting on to me about it. I have seen you do the same thing.

I wasn't "getting on to you about it." This is the only time that I mentioned it. And, if you have seen me do it before please provide a link to verify your accusation.

My point is my point and I did not know we had a RULE on here that we could not do this.

It is not a rule Charles, it is a suggestion to make your posts more readable. Again, people (like my wife) tend not to read long posts.

You don't have to tell me DHK you don't like me I can see it in your posts.

When I point out error (in other threads where you have been posting), it doesn't mean that I don't like you. Please don't get that impression.

I am done posting on BB. I am done with the hate that I fill from you and TinyTim. I am about loving one another. And I clearly don't see it from some of you. I have been told I am unlearn by both of you.

Where have I ever told you that you are unlearned. I haven't done that. I told you once that my children can copy paste verses. That's an easy task to do. But they can't necessarily comment on what they post. I was urging you not to just simply post verses for the sake of posting verses, but give the purpose. Why did you post them? Give some explanation. Is that hateful? No, it was encouragement.

I will not fight with you on this. I guess it is ok for someone like you with that higher power to do something like this. I love all of you but I am very done with this.

I encourage you to stay. Please don't be offended so easily.

 

[BobRyan]

Ok I know you don't believe in OSAS. I see that you believe we can lose our salvation to. I just want to know if we can lose our salvation, How do we keep ourself from falling from salvation. I know myself that I can do nothing with out God. and I know I can't keep my salvation myself. I can't save myself neither.

All true.

As Christ said in John 15 "without me you can do nothing".

IT is in that SAME chapter that he warns about the condition of branches IN HIM that are cut-off when they do not produce fruit.

And you tell me that I can lose all of this. So I lose it because God let me lose it.

Free will.

Just as Lucifer lost it.

Just as Adam lost it.

Just as the Jews lost it according to Romans 11.

"And you too -- FEAR for if HE did not spare them neither will he spare you" Romans 11.

I suggest "he means it".

In all this - God "does not remove free will"

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

My point is my point and I did not know we had a RULE on here that we could not do this. You don't have to tell me DHK you don't like me I can see it in your posts. I am done posting on BB. I am done with the hate that I fill from you and TinyTim. I am about loving one another. And I clearly don't see it from some of you. I have been told I am unlearn by both of you. I will not fight with you on this. I guess it is ok for someone like you with that higher power to do something like this. I love all of you but I am very done with this.

Charles - just one word for perspective here.

DHK and I differ sharply on a number of topics including this one and we have exchanged differences of opinion with a lot more fire and brimstone in the posted text than you might imagine. By contrast you and I have discussed this topic in calm gentle waters by comparison.

DHK is actually on your side in this discussion - I can attest to his enthusiasm in supporting the POV you are posting. I am not sure how you have taken offense at what he has said to you - but I can assure you he has every interest in seeing your point of view succeed on this topic.

On the other hand if you are saying that you feel ill will toward anyone while engaging in these discussions and that it calms your spirit not to engage in debate - or it is better for your Christian acceptance of everyone not to dwell so much on differences - then I affirm your decision to post in areas that build up your faith.

Just my two cents.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally Posted by charles_creech78
Ok I know you don't believe in OSAS. I see that you believe we can lose our salvation to. I just want to know if we can lose our salvation, How do we keep ourself from falling from salvation. I know myself that I can do nothing with out God. and I know I can't keep my salvation myself. I can't save myself neither.

GE

I read in this the plea of an honest soul. Be comforted brother, by the words of our Saviour, who, some say, lies to us when He tells us, swearing by the Word of God, "Whosoever believeth in Me shall NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?" If you do, know for just as sure as this Christ's Oath, that "I am the Resurrection and The Life": which means, that you do not believe this of your own or by yourself, but by the fact He, Jesus Christ, has given you that faith through having given you that Resurrection which is He Himself, through Grace. Stand fast in the Lord! Stand fast in OSAS!

 

[2serve]

Thats Right OSAS, OSAS, OSAS, OSAS, OSAS.

John 5:24
1John 5:11-13

John 3:16 said Eternal life did it not?
when does it begin Eph 1:13-14 & Romans 10:9-13
The answer is that it begins at salvation. If it begins at salvation and ends when you do something wrong then it wasn't Eternal was it?


Ok then, I'll be waiting on the stones:tonofbricks:

 

[BobRyan]

OSAS is not found in scripture.

But in Matt 18 we "do see" the warning from Christ Himself regarding "forgiveness revoked".

In John 15 we do see the warning from Christ about "branches IN ME that are later REMOVED and cast into the fire".

In Romans 11 we do see the warning from Christ through Paul about those who are removed from Christ ... yet Christ is "able to graft them in again if they do not continue in unblief"

In Gal 5:4 we see the warning from Christ through Paul regarding those who are "severed from Christ -- fallen from Grace".

We find this in scripture instead of "OSAS".

We find the Rocky and Thorny ground in Matt 13 that DOES "spring to life" but then later dies.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[2serve]

But in Matt 18 we "do see" the warning from Christ Himself regarding "forgiveness revoked".

I don't see the word revoked anywhere in Matt. 18 you'll have to point out the verse.

In John 15 we do see the warning from Christ about "branches IN ME that are later REMOVED and cast into the fire".

Ok, either I misunderstand John 5:24 or you misunderstand John 15 because the Word of God never disagrees so please show me how they go together.

In Romans 11 we do see the warning from Christ through Paul about those who are removed from Christ ... yet Christ is "able to graft them in again if they do not continue in unblief"

This is talking about the Jews and the Lord grafting the gentiles in not someone being torn out and then being grafted back.( consider reading the verses before and after and they will give you context in your studies)

In Gal 5:4 we see the warning from Christ through Paul regarding those who are "severed from Christ -- fallen from Grace".

This also is out of context, as Paul was addressing those in Galatia who were teaching that you must keep the law to be saved.


We find the Rocky and Thorny ground in Matt 13 that DOES "spring to life" but then later dies.

When the seed was sewn It did spring up. again please make tis fit together with the scriptur cited before. "let God be true and all men liars"

This begs the Question. What must I do to loose it? If God is a Just God, and he is, then there must be a standard by which all shall be judged

 

[DHK]

OSAS is not found in scripture.

Your denial of the truth. Ye do err not knowing the Scripture.

But in Matt 18 we "do see" the warning from Christ Himself regarding "forgiveness revoked".

There is no such doctrine taught in Scripture. To try to force a doctrine out of a parable that is not taught elsewhere in Scripture is to do grave injustice to the Scriptures. You are not rightly dividing the word of truth.

In John 15 we do see the warning from Christ about "branches IN ME that are later REMOVED and cast into the fire".

Every tree has dead branches. They are like tares that grow up among the wheat. They never did receive sustenance from the vine. That is why they are dead. They always were dead.

In Romans 11 we do see the warning from Christ through Paul about those who are removed from Christ ... yet Christ is "able to graft them in again if they do not continue in unblief"

Paul is speaking of the Jews. Here you are taking Scripture out of context. Later in 11:26, he says: "So then all Israel shall be saved." Yes, indeed they will all be grafted in, that is the remnant living at that time. You are very good at taking Scripture out of context.

In Gal 5:4 we see the warning from Christ through Paul regarding those who are "severed from Christ -- fallen from Grace".

You are taking Scripture out of context again. Paul is teaching them the difference of being justified by grace and jusified by the law (which is impossible). None of them had been justified by the law. He didn't say they had. He was speaking hypothetically. Look down a few verses.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:7-8 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
Galatians 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

They had become confused in their doctrine by false teachers. That doesn't mean that they had lost their salvation. Paul in no way implies that. They were saved. They had been justified by faith. A thorough reading of Galatians chapter 3 makes that very clear. His epislte doesn't contradict itself.

We find this in scripture instead of "OSAS".

You find what in Scripture?
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--eternal security with Christ.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
--eternal security with Christ.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
--eternal security in Christ, and confident of it.
--and hundreds of more Scriptures just like them.

We find the Rocky and Thorny ground in Matt 13 that DOES "spring to life" but then later dies.

It is a parable. They were never saved to begin with.

 

[J.Wayne]

Wow! 30 pages of whatever attempting to answer the simplest yes or no question ever asked....can any one say

NO!