Can you be a Christian AND (insert sin here)

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

A wonderful Bible teacher by the name of Arlen Chtiwood once said in a lesson in Tennessee: "There are three rules of Herminutics: Rule #1: CONTEXT, Rule #2: CONTEXT, Rule #3:CONTEXT. If ever there neede to be a 4th rule it would be: CONTEXT.

Let's look at the whole chapter:
vs 1&2: believers (in type)

vs 3: How can you behold the mote that is in your brother's eye if he isn't your brother?

Same in vs 4, 5,

Vs. 6 believers too ( in type)

Vs 7 again believers. Might I add this is not a salvation of the spirit verse. To be saved spiritually no work is involved. Not in asing seeking or knocking. None of us were "seeking" for God when He sought us. He isn't playing hide and seek with unbelievers.

vs. 8 In CONTEXT, what would make us believed that he has all of a sudden shifted from training of the brethren to the Great White Throne of Judgement?

vs. 9 believers
vs 10 believers
etc etc etc

The context changes in verse 15 on through to verse 23 it is switched from believers, to unbelievers.

 

[Accountable]

The context changes in verse 15 on through to verse 23 it is switched from believers, to unbelievers.

You have finally made me speechless! (Can you hear the crickets?)

In all the debating I have ever been a part of, I have never heard this kind of "logical"reasoning. God's Word isn't presented to us in the manner you speak of. The Bible isn't written from the view point of one with A.D.D. (I do not mean to be crude with this statement.)

From Genisis to Revelation, we have a perfect Bible with Context, Context, Context.

I am puzzled as to whether or not to even try to give a contextual answer. I fear you are not willing to listen.

Anyway it is late. I will pray about the matter as I finish another day blessed with the Presence of the Lord in my life.

I shall pray for us all.

Good night!

 

[Accountable]

There was no need for Paul and Silas to tell the Philippian jailor to repent, his actions showed his repentance.


There was no need for Philip to tell the Ethiopian Eunuch to repent, his actions showed his repentance.



In both cases, the men showed signs of repentance.

So if we have "signs" of repentance, we don't actually have to do it?

I ask you also, what is repentance? Also, how does a person, dead in trespasses and sins do this?

I will check for answers in the morning.

 

[Accountable]

The context changes in verse 15 on through to verse 23 it is switched from believers, to unbelievers.

So you are now stating that indeed verse 13 and 14 are for believers? This is a step in the right diraction though we disagree on the"change"in verse 15.

If 13 and 14 are for believers (and I do believe they are) we now see that believers have a choice to make: the straight gate or the broad gate. Again, you have agreed that these are believers not unredeemed man seeing redemption.

I must also appologize, I am tured and accidentily put the change of "context"which many are debating in verse 8 when I should have shown your debate of change in verse 21 and 22 and 23. My mistake.

Also look at verse 20: He is dealing with fruits and not redemption. Still talking about believers.

He doesn't jump out of context for 3 verses and then go right back into the previous message to believers. It is all or non in this particular passage.

I keep saying I'm going to bed! I'm going to really try this time!

 

[J. Jump]

There was no need for Paul and Silas to tell the Philippian jailor to repent, his actions showed his repentance.

WOW. Talk about placing an assumption on Scripture. Man oh man. WOW.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Talk about someone placing assumption on Scripture... coming from the man who believes that saved people will spend 1000 years in hell.

 

[J. Jump]

Talk about someone placing assumption on Scripture... coming from the man who believes that saved people will spend 1000 years in hell.

Ooohhhh this statement really helps your cause :laugh:. I haven't seen any evidence come from you where Scripture says every saved individual is going to rule and reign with Christ. So if you have some by all means let's see it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

it has been given in months past and you just ignore it, so i refuse to cast pearls on that any further.

I figure if you want to continue preaching such an unloving Shepherd that will turn His sheep away, you will have to suffer the consequences, not i

 

[Hope of Glory]

John 2:24: But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all [men],

Matthew 7:23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So, did he know all men or not?

1 Corinthians 12:13: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

So, in the doctrine that you teach, did these unsaved individuals have the Holy Spirit?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

An unsaved person does not have the Holy Ghost.

These unsaved people had to admit Jesus is Lord, as all unsaved people will.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

 

[TBLADY]

I may be wrong but it would seem to me that the word KNEW has a different meaning in each verse.

The first one would be that Jesus KNEW all mens hearts...he knew what they were thinking etc. KNEW nonrelational=UNSAVED

The second would be that Jesus didn't KNOW them on a personal level as a husband and wife or friend would...more intimately. KNEW Relational=SAVED

JMHO

 

[EdSutton]

I can cite the verses that say what I said about the designation of/as "saints", "holy" and "sanctified", if you like.

I would like to see them.

Since you asked:
"saint" or "saints" - Mt. 27:52; Acts 9:13, 32, 41; 26:10; Rom. 1:7; 8:27; 12:13; 15:25, 26, 31; 16:2, 15; I Cor. 1:2; 6:1, 2; 14:33; 16:1, 15; II Cor. 1:1; 8:4; 9:1, 12; 13:13; Eph. 1:1, 15, 18; 2:19; 3:8, 18; 4:12; 5:3; 6:18; Phil'p. 1:1; 4:21, 22; Col. 1:2, 4, 12, 26; I Thess. 3:13; II Thess. 1:10; I Tim. 5:10; Phil'm. 1:5, 7; Heb. 6:10; 13:24; Jude 3, 14; Rev. 5:8; 8:3, 4; 11:18; 13;7, 10; 14:12; 15:3; 16:6; 17:6; 18:24; 19:8; 20:9. (That is over 60 times for the word rendered as 'saint' referring to an individual or Jesus in the NKJV)
"holy" - Mk. 6:20; Lk. 1:70; 2:23; Ac. 2:27; 3:21; 4:27, 30; 13:35; Rom. 11:16; 12:1; I Cor. 7:14, 34; Eph. 1:4; 2:21; 3:5; 5:27; Col. 1:22; Col. 3:12; I Thess. 5:27; I Tim. 2:8; Tit. 1:8; Heb. 3:1; 7:26; I Pet. 1:15-16 (4 times); 2:5, 9; 3:5; II Pet. 1:21; 3:2, 11; I Jo. 2:20; Rev. 3:7; 6:10; 15:4; 18:20; 20:6; 22:6; 11. (That is at least 40 times where the word is rendered as "holy" and refers to either an individual or Jesus in the NKJV)
"sanctified" - Ac. 20:22; 26:18; I Cor. 1:2; 6:11; 7:14; II Tim. 2:21; Heb. 10:10, 14; Jude 1. - "sanctify" - Jo. 17:19; Eph. 5:26; I Thess. 5:23; Heb. 13:12. (At least another 10 plus, in which "sanctify" or "sanctified" is used in relation to believers or Jesus in the NKJV)

That is over 110 times the words are used in the NT. (I had to get a bunch of my family members here just to count them all on, 'cause I didn't have enough fingers and toes all by myself!) :laugh: :laugh: And I don't find in these verses many, if any, references to the implication that one had to 'act' "saintly" in order to be named a saint.
And I would suggest that much bad report has arisen, among the world from the lack of "holy living" by the saints of God. I hope one is holy, in the practical sense (and that is certainly the goal we should strive for), as we know it. But Scripture does simply not make this an additional requirement to bear the name or title of "saint".

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Once you believe, you are saved. [Acts 16:31] If your position is just, you have no need to lie to prove your point; the truth speaks for itself.

I fully agree with this regarding Acts 16:31, but I am no "Calvinist" per se by any stretch, and any implication of 'lying' does not fit, at all, with the original quote of my own post, nor my original post, as well.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

If you believe that all eternally saved individuals are faithful, obedient, overcomers...well I've got some ocean front property in Oklahoma that's lookin' mighty fine right about now.

Would that be 'Whitewater' oceanfront property?? Just askin'!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

I know this is off subject but I am rather curious here.....

Would there be any here who are against these teachings that are a member of a SBC?

I do have a reason for asking. It isn't to jump onto anyone or start something different. I am going somewhere with this.

I am a member of a Southern Baptist church. What exactly "of these teachings" are you referring to, for, as my nephew is wont to say, "Ah 'on't get it!"

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

There was no need for Paul and Silas to tell the Philippian jailor to repent, his actions showed his repentance.

There was no need for Philip to tell the Ethiopian Eunuch to repent, his actions showed his repentance.

In both cases, the men showed signs of repentance.

Nice thoughts, I guess, but a little Scripture showing this to be the case would be nice, as well.

BTW, I do believe these 'repented', and that 'repentance toward God' (and 'repentance from dead works') is fully required for salvation, for I believe that Scripture expressly states that. (Acts 20:21; Heb. 6:1) I just don't define it (repentance as 'turning' from sin) as you apparently do, but see it as a 'change of mind' and the 'flip-side', so to speak, of believe/faith.

FTR, the word rendered as "turn", "turned", or "converted" is always used in the NT in the 'passive' sense of "be turned" or "be converted".

As I have posted numerous times before!

{That's supposed to be a 'sigh' smiley, FTR.}

Never does the NT (at least) say that we 'convert' ourselves, in any way, to my knowledge.

Ed

 

[ShotGunWillie]

Since I am not going to read all 11 Pages and since on the first page I already disagree with several statements, I will let my opinion by known.

You CANNOT be a Christian and a Homosexual.
You CANNOT be a Christian and a murderer.
You CANNOT be a Christian and a pedophile.
You CANNOT be a Christian and a rapist.

There are probably several additions to this list but this gives you an idea. The idea of sin is sin, it doesn't matter what the sin is, we as Christians can commit any of them is absurd and false in all aspects.

Homosexuals can become Christians, but they will no longer be homosexuals or they were not truly converted. Murderers can become Christians, but Christians will not become murderers if they are truly saved.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Since I am not going to read all 11 Pages and since on the first page I already disagree with several statements, I will let my opinion by known.

You CANNOT be a Christian and a Homosexual.
You CANNOT be a Christian and a murderer.
You CANNOT be a Christian and a pedophile.
You CANNOT be a Christian and a rapist.

There are probably several additions to this list but this gives you an idea. The idea of sin is sin, it doesn't matter what the sin is, we as Christians can commit any of them is absurd and false in all aspects.

Homosexuals can become Christians, but they will no longer be homosexuals or they were not truly converted. Murderers can become Christians, but Christians will not become murderers if they are truly saved.

And a hearty Amen to this post!

 

[Accountable]

I am a member of a Southern Baptist church. What exactly "of these teachings" are you referring to, for, as my nephew is wont to say, "Ah 'on't get it!"

Ed

I was speaking about the teaching that not all believers will rule and reign with Christ and even some who were unfaithful weill encounter outer darkness for 1,000 years. The teaching that we will be literally judged before the Judgement Seat and held accountable for the deeds done in the body, good or bad.

The reason I asked about the SBC is because many here call this heresy but with little research I have found very promonant SBC Pastors teaching this accountability. (Agreed there are different levels in which people believe the punishment is)

Here are a few:

Dr. Charles Stanley, Atlanta, GA teaches that the Parables dealing with the Kingdom of God are for believers. Those cast into outer darkness are indeed Christians. He doesn't go into great detail in presenting what outer darkness is, but he still agrees it is not for the unbeliever.

Dr. Wiley Drake, 2nd Vice President of the Southern Baptist Convention, convention 2006-2007, is very vocal about accountability before the Judgement Seat of Christ. Brother Drake has been a thorn in the flesh to many who would take the position of no punishment at the Judgement Seat. I thank the Lord for his faithfulness to the Word and I value his friendship. He continues to fight sin in California as he proclaims the truth! I do not know where Dr. Drae places unfaithful during the Kingdom but he definitely preaches a sure accountability.

Just a few.

God Bless!

 

[Benjamin]

I am a member of a Southern Baptist church. What exactly "of these teachings" are you referring to, for, as my nephew is wont to say, "Ah 'on't get it!"

Ed

AHH, you beat me to the punch! And you did it so smooothly that now posting my reply seems a bit too course. But now that you already taught me a lesson in meekness, and so you know what I’m talking about, I’ll just tell you how I was going to answer:

“Frankly, I seriously doubt that very few if any SBC or any others here buy into this double-tongued, two salvation spitting, protestant purgatory drivel, or these, what I would call: “private interpretations with obvious agendas which include hidden forms of works based salvation; (although I’m sure it will be denied by those advocating this “other gospel” apart from grace with more double-talk), anyways, MY answer is: “No, it is plainly heretical ME tripe, clearly against the teachings of the Protestant faith for good reason!” AND I see on other Christian boards this ME doctrine is classified as being BANDED right along with “Oneness” “Mormonism” “JW” and “Catholicism”, WHY it this teaching being allowed to be PROSELYTIZED here, I don’t know!

That frankly said, what’s your point? Just curious.”

I wonder if this has any bearing to the matter of my wife telling me that I too often go straight for the jugular vein when I feel someone is REALLY WRONG? :laugh: Glad I learned this lesson. Thanks Ed. :saint: