Can You Come to Christ on Your Own

[DaveXR650]

The thread is: Can You Come to Christ on Your Own?
The Supremacy of God is front and center.

Everyone that comes to Christ comes to Christ. We all agree on that. A person will believe or trust in Christ whereas before that time they did not. So where the controversy comes in is every time you see a verse that talks about people believing or repenting, "why did they do that".

I think everyone would even agree that it was by our will. In other words we choose to come. But the question again is why does this happen. I think that in our natural state we don't have a clear picture of our own sin, God's holiness, our inability to pay for what we've already done much less stop this constant offense. Worse than that, in our natural state we actually tend to oppose God and have a ruling principle of selfishness and defiance toward God. Now in my opinion, this is describing our free will. Obviously something has to happen or such a person will not decide to come to Christ. They don't see any need, and they don't think much of God anyhow. So I think there has to be work by the Holy Spirit on the inner being or mind or soul of the person.

This thread I wanted to be about the details of how this occurs. We know people have a natural conscience. We know there is a basic ability to know right from wrong. We know the Bible talks about the word giving discernment, and being sharper than a two edged sword. (I think those descriptions of the power of the word include the work of the Holy Spirit). The question was, is there enough there to allow a natural person to realize their need and come to Christ by faith. I don't think there is, myself.

The other question I had was if someone does believe that their desire to come to Christ was based only on their conscience and powers of reasoning after hearing preaching or reading God's word - in that case, is that just a mistake, or is it a sin, or is it so serious that it indicated they are not in reality, saved?

Romans 9 is a powerful chapter on election, even individual election and I have no problem with the standard reformed understanding of it. But a person who feels they chose on their own to accept the gospel still gives all the credit for being saved to the work of Christ and they understand the blessed opportunity they had in hearing the gospel.

Bottom line. Does the supremacy of God go beyond the provision of saving grace with the choice being ours? Is that really a horrible heresy? And, if the supremacy of God does go beyond that then in what way? In helping some and passing over others or in actually denying some and actively being a primary cause of their damnation.

 

[Silverhair]

The thread is: Can You Come to Christ on Your Own?
The Supremacy of God is front and center.
I highlighted your statement where you give some wiggle room for man to assist God, but the decisive amount would be on God.
Does the word of God teach cooperation with God in order to be saved? If so, please provide the passage or passages that teach us that we must cooperate with God or He cannot save us.

When God states His Sovereignty in Romans 9, should I just ignore it simply because someone else wants to ignore it and proclaim cooperative salvation?

*Romans 9:10-29*
And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”

No one would say God can not save whom He wishes to save, He's sovereign. But the bible does tell us that He will only save those that believe.

Rom 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.


Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

 

[DaveXR650]

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

You know. That's a very powerful verse because it kind of answers the original question. A person who believes in Him believes in Him. If you hear the gospel, and believe, then you are saved and if you are condemned it is because you do not believe. It does all come down to those that believe are saved and those that are not saved are not saved - because they do not believe.

I mean, it seems clear that that's the reason. They that don't believe are also not elect or not predestined but the real reason is that they do not believe. And their opinions on election and predestination or free will don't seem to be relevant either except as background information no matter how true. Does anyone have a verse that would refute that?

 

[AustinC]

The earlier conversation with Nicodemus helps inform John 3:18.

*John 3:3-8*
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Salty]

This Thread is closed
This went way past the normal 130 posts
Normally, I will give a 6 hour notices -but this
will be the exception.
A new thread has been started.
Can You Come to Christ on Your Own Part II