Well said and I labeled him Charismatic but should have labeled him Emergent as I did in my first reply to him on FB.
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Can you refute this Charismatic Apologist?
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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Well said and I labeled him Charismatic but should have labeled him Emergent as I did in my first reply to him on FB.
Florida Believer
New Member
Some great replies on here and I loved the one about how he's using "love" to hide behind (paraphrasing here). While I agree with the Apologist that God doesn't force his love on people and he probably is a believer, just sadly misled if he is caught up in the Charismatic movement.
But, his own studies should have led him to 1 Corinthians where the 1st rebuke of bad doctrine of Charismatics was issued by Paul because they were misusing the Sign Gifts and focusing more on those than on Christ's love.
As others have also said in other epistles we are called to not put up with false doctrines. That's why brother McArthur had the Strange Fire conference. I just wished John had tempered it more by saying that they can't all be lumped into the same extreme examples that they showed on the Big Screens.
But, his own studies should have led him to 1 Corinthians where the 1st rebuke of bad doctrine of Charismatics was issued by Paul because they were misusing the Sign Gifts and focusing more on those than on Christ's love.
As others have also said in other epistles we are called to not put up with false doctrines. That's why brother McArthur had the Strange Fire conference. I just wished John had tempered it more by saying that they can't all be lumped into the same extreme examples that they showed on the Big Screens.
Do Charismatics anoint the sick with oil?
Archie the Preacher
Member
Some clarity, please?
Evangelist, what exactly about this man's view do you wish to 'refute'?
What do you see as errant or heretical in what he says? Please do NOT just copy and paste another four or five pages of postings, but in your own words - and as few as possible - explain the problem.
Has it occurred to you the proper response should be to agree with him? (I'm not saying you should, just asking if you have considered that course.)
Evangelist, what exactly about this man's view do you wish to 'refute'?
What do you see as errant or heretical in what he says? Please do NOT just copy and paste another four or five pages of postings, but in your own words - and as few as possible - explain the problem.
Has it occurred to you the proper response should be to agree with him? (I'm not saying you should, just asking if you have considered that course.)
Love does not come without giving. It is a self-sacrificial giving of oneself. That being said there is no love where there is no sacrifice either to give or to obtain the truth. When experience over-rides truth (the Word), love has been exempted.
Theology is not confined to any sect/group/denomination, etc. The word simply means "study of God." If the Charismatic has no "study of God," he has no knowledge of God, and does not know who he worships. He cannot possibly be saved without "theology." The definition in its simplest terms requires that he understand who Christ is and what salvation is before he comes to know Christ as Savior. The Christ that saves is not Allah or Vishnu. Our theology teaches us who Christ is. Theology = study of God. Who is He? I trust that the Charismatic knows who he is worshiping. If they do, they have become theological in their thinking.
Theology is not confined to any sect/group/denomination, etc. The word simply means "study of God." If the Charismatic has no "study of God," he has no knowledge of God, and does not know who he worships. He cannot possibly be saved without "theology." The definition in its simplest terms requires that he understand who Christ is and what salvation is before he comes to know Christ as Savior. The Christ that saves is not Allah or Vishnu. Our theology teaches us who Christ is. Theology = study of God. Who is He? I trust that the Charismatic knows who he is worshiping. If they do, they have become theological in their thinking.
madre. the kids and I were traveling across West Virginia in our very rusty 1986 Aerostar wagon when the steering rack started to fail. Benny Hinn would've said: Lay hands on it. Check. Two hands on the wheel. Annoint it with oil. That was the problem. Oil from one end to the other. PRAY! I was praying we could get it to a garage. Maybe I should have rebuked the spirit of leak.
Never... He does not preach the Bible and I cannot or will not agree with him.
Archie the Preacher
Member
It's a long process
Does he not agree with the teachings and principles set forth in the Bible? Does he deny the Divinity of Jesus?
Evangelist, I deal with and witness to and argue with atheists, agnostics and pantheists on a regular basis. My primary goal and effort is to reveal to these people the reality of God through Jesus Christ, and then allow the Holy Spirit to do His part and convict them.
Part of this - at least in my approach - is to demonstrate to 'them' the failings of their beliefs. Why it isn't logical and cannot function. Most of the time it is based on their faulty view of Christianity and the Bible. For instance, there are countless (perhaps an exaggeration) people who focus on 'love' without understanding of what 'love' the Bible and Jesus speaks. (It's 'agapao', not 'phileo'.) AND, they focus on 'love' while ignoring God and the needed sacrifice of Jesus.
So there is NO 'grand unified refutation' (tipping the hat to Dr. Einstein) of bad thinking and evil. There is a constant exposure of each fallacy, one at a time. The difficulty with this is usually the non-Christian floods the field with so many fallacies the effort is overwhelming. So one must observe the 'field' of fallacies and sort out the basic incorrect assumptions - work on those first.
Sometimes, one must say, "If you base your thinking on something other than the Bible, we have no common ground." Then demonstrate what the Bible says on a specific issue. But be careful you are following Scriptural teaching, and not 'traditional' teaching based on culture or some past long-dead secular leader.
Does that help any?
Ah. I think I begin to understand. However, that is a rather general statement. And no problem with your objection, by the way.
Does he not agree with the teachings and principles set forth in the Bible? Does he deny the Divinity of Jesus?
Evangelist, I deal with and witness to and argue with atheists, agnostics and pantheists on a regular basis. My primary goal and effort is to reveal to these people the reality of God through Jesus Christ, and then allow the Holy Spirit to do His part and convict them.
Part of this - at least in my approach - is to demonstrate to 'them' the failings of their beliefs. Why it isn't logical and cannot function. Most of the time it is based on their faulty view of Christianity and the Bible. For instance, there are countless (perhaps an exaggeration) people who focus on 'love' without understanding of what 'love' the Bible and Jesus speaks. (It's 'agapao', not 'phileo'.) AND, they focus on 'love' while ignoring God and the needed sacrifice of Jesus.
So there is NO 'grand unified refutation' (tipping the hat to Dr. Einstein) of bad thinking and evil. There is a constant exposure of each fallacy, one at a time. The difficulty with this is usually the non-Christian floods the field with so many fallacies the effort is overwhelming. So one must observe the 'field' of fallacies and sort out the basic incorrect assumptions - work on those first.
Sometimes, one must say, "If you base your thinking on something other than the Bible, we have no common ground." Then demonstrate what the Bible says on a specific issue. But be careful you are following Scriptural teaching, and not 'traditional' teaching based on culture or some past long-dead secular leader.
Does that help any?
jesus the final and ultimate revealtion of God to us, and the Bible is the ONLY written revealtion from Him, so the charasmatic problem is a denial of Revelation and inspiration, as if one holds to them, proper theology is seen as given By God already to man, not us experiencing it!
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