Canadian Health Care Bests US

[annsni]

We live in a democracy. A democracy is made up of individuals and we as individuals are responsible for others. If individuals are too stingy to help others then the government will step in and do so. Your interpretations is a rather liberal one.

Where does it say that we're responsible for others? You mean I need to make sure that my neighbor's children go to a good school? That they have a flat screen TV? That it's my job to babysit their kids or do their lawn? Does the Bible not say that a man is responsible for his own family? That if he doesn't work, he doesn't eat and if he doesn't care for his own family, he's worse than an infidel?

Go thou and do likewise. But if you do not, do not be surprised if you are taxed to help others. To those who love money more than God, God will find a way to make them pay.

Jesus praised the Good Samaritan.

See, the issue is that I cannot support those people or organizations that I wish to...because we are too highly taxed. Just my property taxes is $14,000. There are SO many things I could do with that money including paying the utility bills of the young woman I know who is home with the swine flu and is not getting paid until she starts back to work. I'd LOVE to be a good samaritan but I cannot because the government feels it's their right to take all of my money.

Would the Good Samaritan have been praised if he looked at the guy in the road and say "Well, I paid my taxes and he has the right to free healthcare. Good luck buddy!" and walked away? I don't see that supported in the Scripture, so your argument is dead.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Where does it say that we're responsible for others? You mean I need to make sure that my neighbor's children go to a good school? That they have a flat screen TV? That it's my job to babysit their kids or do their lawn? Does the Bible not say that a man is responsible for his own family? That if he doesn't work, he doesn't eat and if he doesn't care for his own family, he's worse than an infidel?





See, the issue is that I cannot support those people or organizations that I wish to...because we are too highly taxed. Just my property taxes is $14,000. There are SO many things I could do with that money including paying the utility bills of the young woman I know who is home with the swine flu and is not getting paid until she starts back to work. I'd LOVE to be a good samaritan but I cannot because the government feels it's their right to take all of my money.

Would the Good Samaritan have been praised if he looked at the guy in the road and say "Well, I paid my taxes and he has the right to free healthcare. Good luck buddy!" and walked away? I don't see that supported in the Scripture, so your argument is dead.

See my reply to Old Regular. It pretty well covers your post.

You are right, if we Christians really believed in helping others and we all did so there would be little if any need for the government to do so. I wish that it be true that Christians did this. Also, if we did the message of Christ wold be much more appealing to everyone. Too often the unsaved see Christians as selfish, self-centered, legalistic all of which is very unappealing. This makes me very sad for I know there are many Christians who are helping and working to help others.

I respectfully disagree with your last comment. Why? Because far too many Christians simply ignore the message of Christ on how we are to treat others.

To be able to help others is one of the reasons that I believe every Christians should save and invest a minimum of their gross earnings. Now don't tell me it cannot be done because it can. Even when my spouse and I were very poor we tithed and saved. At one time we were so poor that we debated two weeks whether we could afford a 50 cent pack of playing cards for our own leisure entertainment.

 

[annsni]

To be able to help others is one of the reasons that I believe every Christians should save and invest a minimum of their gross earnings. Now don't tell me it cannot be done because it can. Even when my spouse and I were very poor we tithed and saved. At one time we were so poor that we debated two weeks whether we could afford a 50 cent pack of playing cards for our own leisure entertainment.

We try to save and we do save a little but at this point, we're actually going into some debt for my daughter to attend college (we have no mortgage but do have a home equity line of credit and we've had to put some of her tuition onto the HELOC). But that doesn't stop me from helping when I can. I helped that young woman with swine flu by giving her what extra money I had this week. I have often made meals, watched children or delivered groceries to families in need. I'm actually trying to figure out how to pay the tuition for our preschool for a friend of mine who would really benefit from putting her child in our new 2 year old program (it's just an hour and 15 minutes and $64 a month). She's going through a nasty divorce and she's worried about her son and his socialization needs (he was a micropreemie so she's pretty sensitive about things like this for him). So I do what I can but if I had even 1/2 of that $14,000 (not to mention the rest of our money taken in taxes), I could do so much more and have it be done from my heart and not by force.

 

[Revmitchell]

There isn't enough taxes to be collected or enough private support to address everyone in need. It cannot be done. We do not live in a democracy. And this attempt to build a bigger government is not about the needy. It is about power.

 

[Crabtownboy]

We try to save and we do save a little but at this point, we're actually going into some debt for my daughter to attend college (we have no mortgage but do have a home equity line of credit and we've had to put some of her tuition onto the HELOC). But that doesn't stop me from helping when I can. I helped that young woman with swine flu by giving her what extra money I had this week. I have often made meals, watched children or delivered groceries to families in need. I'm actually trying to figure out how to pay the tuition for our preschool for a friend of mine who would really benefit from putting her child in our new 2 year old program (it's just an hour and 15 minutes and $64 a month). She's going through a nasty divorce and she's worried about her son and his socialization needs (he was a micropreemie so she's pretty sensitive about things like this for him). So I do what I can but if I had even 1/2 of that $14,000 (not to mention the rest of our money taken in taxes), I could do so much more and have it be done from my heart and not by force.

I applaud your efforts! It is wonderful that you are helping others! That all we Christians would.

I believe God brings people with need into our lives both those who we need to help and those who will help us ... and the help is not restricted to materials needs.

 

[Crabtownboy]

There isn't enough taxes to be collected or enough private support to address everyone in need. It cannot be done. We do not live in a democracy. And this attempt to build a bigger government is not about the needy. It is about power.

We could certainly go a lot closer to helping all if we were not spending a billion a week on killing others.

 

[FlyForFun]

We could certainly go a lot closer to helping all if we were not spending a billion a week on killing others.

Actually, very few of that "billion" is used to kill anyone. Tather, the bulk of the funds are spent to maintain rear and forward deployed forces tasked with establishing order in choatic "nations."

Those tasks include protection of millions of civilians, thus protecting those who would otherwise be lost to unchecked civil war.

 

[sag38]

"We could certainly go a lot closer to helping all if we were not spending a billion a week on killing others."

And, yet you support the culture of death where far more are murdered everyday in the name of choice (far far more than any war that the U.S. has fought or is fighting now). Sad indeed!!!

 

[Andy T.]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

In some of your other posts (by alatide, JC, BB, etc.), you've stated that we shouldn't mix religion and politics, and that's the major problem with the American church these days. So why are you doing the very same thing here - mixing religion with your politics? Are you a hypocrite?

 

[alatide]

Is the story of the Good Samaritan to teach us to take care of everyone else's medical bills?

OK - then the next uninsured person who walks through the hospital doors is yours.

I do not see any teaching in Scripture where we are to pay another's medical bills - or ANY bills for that matter.

That's you interpretation of loving your neighbor and especially your enemy? That's not scriptural but it is republican so I suppose you think that's good enough.

 

[targus]

That's you interpretation of loving your neighbor and especially your enemy? That's not scriptural but it is republican so I suppose you think that's good enough.

Since no one is denied medical care - which you full well know having been around and around this many times - it comes down to a matter of how and who pays.

I don't see the issue of whether medical care for the uninsured is paid by everyone else either through higher taxes or by higher health insurance premiums as a Biblical question.

BTW - I love it when libs want to bring up the Bible when they think that it supports their political positions - but suddenly become Biblically illiterate when it comes to abortion.

 

[alatide]

Since no one is denied medical care - which you full well know having been around and around this many times - it comes down to a matter of how and who pays.

I don't see the issue of whether medical care for the uninsured is paid by everyone else either through higher taxes or by higher health insurance premiums as a Biblical question.

BTW - I love it when libs want to bring up the Bible when they think that it supports their political positions - but suddenly become Biblically illiterate when it comes to abortion.

Why do you continue to LIE about my position on abortion? I do not support it.

 

[alatide]

You say one thing but I thing you really believe another. Why do you support the murder of millions of children through abortion, a practice made legal through a Republican Supreme Court?

 

[Revmitchell]

BTW - I love it when libs want to bring up the Bible when they think that it supports their political positions - but suddenly become Biblically illiterate when it comes to abortion.

Or suddenly do not want to mix church and state when they oppose the issue but use scripture conveniently when they support the issue.

 

[donnA]

This is the health care system being praised?

Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

In 1992-93 alone, the government closed 52 hospitals, prompting doctors to learn how to treat patients during much shorter hospital stays. More hospitals have shut their doors since.

http://www.acpinternist.org/archives/1997/07/canadahc.htm

president of the Canadian Medical Association, "we all agree the system is imploding." "We all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize ... if it keeps on going without change, it is not sustainable." I guess if Mr. Reilly believes that waiting for up to eight months for an MRI, a year for a joint replacement, lower cancer survival rates and a lottery in at least one province to see a doctor is acceptable, then that system is a resounding success!

http://www.aikenstandard.com/Le/warner-letter

What does it mean to be a patient in Canada? It's common knowledge that many Canadians must wait a long time to see a specialist or receive lifesaving treatment. The Vancouver-based Fraser Institute tracks treatment delays; the

10th edition of its "Waiting Your Turn" survey reports that in 1999 a Canadian patient's average wait from referral by a general practitioner to treatment by a specialist had reached a record 14 weeks.

snip

Treatment delays for cancer patients have gotten so bad that, as The Detroit News has reported, Cancer Center Ontario (a governmental agency) entered into contracts to "export" cancer patients to Detroit's Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute as well as medical centers in Cleveland and Buffalo. While those contracts covered only radiation treatments for breast cancer and prostate cancer patients, they were a stunning admission that Ontario's health system could not provide treatment within a reasonable time. In fact, in 1999, half of all Ontario patients diagnosed with cancer waited eight weeks or more to begin radiation treatment. tters

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Why do you continue to LIE about my position on abortion? I do not support it.

Why do you lie about our position on health care ? Why do you lie about our charitable giving ?

 

[annsni]

That's you interpretation of loving your neighbor and especially your enemy? That's not scriptural but it is republican so I suppose you think that's good enough.

Loving my neighbor is what I'm doing right now - selling things online to try to raise some money to help that single mom who is sick with the swine flu and pneumonia. She has no money coming in and is trying to drag her sick, exhausted butt into work so she can pay her bills when it's the last thing she needs to do. I wish I had money sitting around to help her but I don't so I've listed a few things online to sell and I'll have the money go directly to her.

It is not scriptural to pay everyone else's bills. It's scriptural to pay your own bills. We're to love our neighbor - not financially support them. Are we? However, we can show the love of Christ to them by helping them in times of need as I'm trying to do right now. I don't want the government to steal my money and use a lot of it in bureacracy. I want to be able to have a hand in who gets it so I can minister to them in other ways.

But whatever. It's very democratic of you to tell me that I must give all my money to whoever the government decides needs it.

 

[Robert Snow]

Loving my neighbor is what I'm doing right now - selling things online to try to raise some money to help that single mom who is sick with the swine flu and pneumonia. She has no money coming in and is trying to drag her sick, exhausted butt into work so she can pay her bills when it's the last thing she needs to do. I wish I had money sitting around to help her but I don't so I've listed a few things online to sell and I'll have the money go directly to her.

It is not scriptural to pay everyone else's bills. It's scriptural to pay your own bills. We're to love our neighbor - not financially support them. Are we? However, we can show the love of Christ to them by helping them in times of need as I'm trying to do right now. I don't want the government to steal my money and use a lot of it in bureacracy. I want to be able to have a hand in who gets it so I can minister to them in other ways.

But whatever. It's very democratic of you to tell me that I must give all my money to whoever the government decides needs it.

Your inability to help sufficiently, although I am sure you are doing what you can, is more proof that we need a single-payer universal health care bill to pass the Congress.

 

[Revmitchell]

Your inability to help sufficiently, although I am sure you are doing what you can, is more proof that we need a single-payer universal health care bill to pass the Congress.

No it isn't Terry or whoever you are it has nothing o do with it.

 

[annsni]

Your inability to help sufficiently, although I am sure you are doing what you can, is more proof that we need a single-payer universal health care bill to pass the Congress.

How so? None of my income goes towards health care since it's covered by our church. Additionally, this woman has health care - but she cannot pay her bills because she's not working. Unless the health care bill takes that into consideration too. Does it?