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Canadian Health Care Bests US

Robert Snow

New Member
How so? None of my income goes towards health care since it's covered by our church. Additionally, this woman has health care - but she cannot pay her bills because she's not working. Unless the health care bill takes that into consideration too. Does it?

You misunderstand!

If all you are doing, which is admirable, is not enough, it is evident that some people need more than individuals are willing or able to provide. We need the federal government to step in and help. This is one more reason I support a universal single-payer health care bill.
 

targus

New Member
... it is evident that some people need more than individuals are willing or able to provide. We need the federal government to step in and help. This is one more reason I support a universal single-payer health care bill.

Why a univeral single-payer plan?

Why not a targeted program to address only those who are truly in need?

Why the over kill?
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You misunderstand!

If all you are doing, which is admirable, is not enough, it is evident that some people need more than individuals are willing or able to provide. We need the federal government to step in and help. This is one more reason I support a universal single-payer health care bill.

Once again, this is not about health care. What I'm saying is that I don't want my government taking more of my money when I personally can use that money to help people in a real, tangible way. I know many others who would do the same thing. She is a woman who's husband left her. She struggles to make ends meet and lives paycheck to paycheck. She refuses to take government assistance because it would not be good for her family - but this illness set her back. There are now a group of us who are fundraising for her to be able to pay this month's bills - just $200, but that's a lot when you don't have it.
 

alatide

New Member
Once again, this is not about health care. What I'm saying is that I don't want my government taking more of my money when I personally can use that money to help people in a real, tangible way. I know many others who would do the same thing. She is a woman who's husband left her. She struggles to make ends meet and lives paycheck to paycheck. She refuses to take government assistance because it would not be good for her family - but this illness set her back. There are now a group of us who are fundraising for her to be able to pay this month's bills - just $200, but that's a lot when you don't have it.

OK, that's one. You have 40M uninsured to go. This is about helping the needy.
 

Robert Snow

New Member
Once again, this is not about health care. What I'm saying is that I don't want my government taking more of my money when I personally can use that money to help people in a real, tangible way. I know many others who would do the same thing. She is a woman who's husband left her. She struggles to make ends meet and lives paycheck to paycheck. She refuses to take government assistance because it would not be good for her family - but this illness set her back. There are now a group of us who are fundraising for her to be able to pay this month's bills - just $200, but that's a lot when you don't have it.

OK, I see what you are saying. If this family doesn't want governmental help, they are free to decline it. I think it is a mistake, and I certainly wouldn't do it, but it's up to them.

As far as you not wanting the government to take more of your money, we live in a Democratic Republic and if the Congress raises taxes, you and I both will pay.

I think we should stop spending money on useless wars and corporate welfare for companies like Haliburton and use this money to help those in need.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
OK, I see what you are saying. If this family doesn't want governmental help, they are free to decline it. I think it is a mistake, and I certainly wouldn't do it, but it's up to them.

As far as you not wanting the government to take more of your money, we live in a Democratic Republic and if the Congress raises taxes, you and I both will pay.

I think we should stop spending money on useless wars and corporate welfare for companies like Haliburton and use this money to help those in need.

We should stop spending money on both down size the fed and look for non government solutions so the country can live in a truly free state as it was founded on. Let the states decide to do this type of foolish stuff and it will at least be more effective by taking out an unnecessary middle man.
 

Twizzler

Member
Even when my spouse and I were very poor we tithed and saved. At one time we were so poor that we debated two weeks whether we could afford a 50 cent pack of playing cards for our own leisure entertainment.

Those are good times, CTB! I remember being so poor and I look back on those times with fondness, knowing full well that we easily could have taken state money (welfare and foodstamps) but we just tightened our belts and made it through. God is good!
 

Crabtownboy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Those are good times, CTB! I remember being so poor and I look back on those times with fondness, knowing full well that we easily could have taken state money (welfare and foodstamps) but we just tightened our belts and made it through. God is good!

You are right, those were good times. In fact we had a blast during those lean days. We had each other. It was all new and the world lay before us. We never thought about food stamps. We budgeted by the envelope method .... $10.00 a week for groceries. You cannot deficit spend an envelope. Poor does not mean miserable, but it does mean being very careful.
 

Twizzler

Member
We budgeted by the envelope method .... $10.00 a week for groceries. You cannot deficit spend an envelope. Poor does not mean miserable, but it does mean being very careful.
LOL! We STILL use the envelope method! My wife insists that it costs $175 a week to feed us and I think she's nuts, but I graciously slip that cash in the envelope every week and eat well every night.
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:.......

Let's make this clear... Are you claiming that whether a person will be on the left or the right of Christ depends on whether he happens to live in a country that rewards the slothful?
 

Nonsequitur

New Member
What is your position on extending health care to those who don't currently have insurance? I've assumed you don't support it. Maybe I'm wrong.
#1 Health insurance is something that is pre-paid. YOU want to make it a law that others pay for it.
#2 Health CARE is something that is already assured to anyone that needs it, on an emergency basis.
Since you don't have a job and your daddy still pays your bills little girl, why do you care? When you get out of school and have a job (given to you by your daddys' friends), you can give all the money you make to health care for other people. Then you can run for mayor, telling others how you will give all your money for health 'Care' for others.
 

Winman

Active Member
Here is but a portion of a letter by a Canadian about socialized health-care

I was once a believer in socialized medicine. I don’t want to overstate my case: growing up in Canada, I didn’t spend much time contemplating the nuances of health economics. I wanted to get into medical school—my mind brimmed with statistics on MCAT scores and admissions rates, not health spending. But as a Canadian, I had soaked up three things from my environment: a love of ice hockey; an ability to convert Celsius into Fahrenheit in my head; and the belief that government-run health care was truly compassionate. What I knew about American health care was unappealing: high expenses and lots of uninsured people. When HillaryCare shook Washington, I remember thinking that the Clintonistas were right.

My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.

I decided to write about what I saw. By day, I attended classes and visited patients; at night, I worked on a book. Unfortunately, statistics on Canadian health care’s weaknesses were hard to come by, and even finding people willing to criticize the system was difficult, such was the emotional support that it then enjoyed. One family friend, diagnosed with cancer, was told to wait for potentially lifesaving chemotherapy. I called to see if I could write about his plight. Worried about repercussions, he asked me to change his name. A bit later, he asked if I could change his sex in the story, and maybe his town. Finally, he asked if I could change the illness, too.

My book’s thesis was simple: to contain rising costs, government-run health-care systems invariably restrict the health-care supply. Thus, at a time when Canada’s population was aging and needed more care, not less, cost-crunching bureaucrats had reduced the size of medical school classes, shuttered hospitals, and capped physician fees, resulting in hundreds of thousands of patients waiting for needed treatment—patients who suffered and, in some cases, died from the delays. The only solution, I concluded, was to move away from government command-and-control structures and toward a more market-oriented system. To capture Canadian health care’s growing crisis, I called my book Code Blue, the term used when a patient’s heart stops and hospital staff must leap into action to save him. Though I had a hard time finding a Canadian publisher, the book eventually came out in 1999 from a small imprint; it struck a nerve, going through five printings.

Nor were the problems I identified unique to Canada—they characterized all government-run health-care systems. Consider the recent British controversy over a cancer patient who tried to get an appointment with a specialist, only to have it canceled—48 times. More than 1 million Britons must wait for some type of care, with 200,000 in line for longer than six months. A while back, I toured a public hospital in Washington, D.C., with Tim Evans, a senior fellow at the Centre for the New Europe. The hospital was dark and dingy, but Evans observed that it was cleaner than anything in his native England. In France, the supply of doctors is so limited that during an August 2003 heat wave—when many doctors were on vacation and hospitals were stretched beyond capacity—15,000 elderly citizens died. Across Europe, state-of-the-art drugs aren’t available. And so on.
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
LOL! We STILL use the envelope method! My wife insists that it costs $175 a week to feed us and I think she's nuts, but I graciously slip that cash in the envelope every week and eat well every night.

How many are in your family? We're a family of 6 with 2 adults, 2 teens (eat like adults) and two elementary school kids (who are fast approaching eating like adults) and I can't get our food bill under $200 a week. This week I spent $250, but that included a number of non-food items that we needed. I'm feeding all 6 of us 3 meals a day, 7 days a week. So trust your wife! LOL Food's expensive!
 

Twizzler

Member
How many are in your family? We're a family of 6 with 2 adults, 2 teens (eat like adults) and two elementary school kids (who are fast approaching eating like adults) and I can't get our food bill under $200 a week. This week I spent $250, but that included a number of non-food items that we needed. I'm feeding all 6 of us 3 meals a day, 7 days a week. So trust your wife! LOL Food's expensive!
It's a CONSPIRACY! :) J/k. There are five of us here, we've lost our lease on the oldest and he's flown the coop. ;)
 

alatide

New Member
Let's make this clear... Are you claiming that whether a person will be on the left or the right of Christ depends on whether he happens to live in a country that rewards the slothful?

No. I'm saying that Christians love their neighbors not just the ones that are well off. They also love their enemies.
 

targus

New Member
No. I'm saying that Christians love their neighbors not just the ones that are well off. They also love their enemies.

Something like the love that you show daily on this forum towards those on the "Right"?

Especially like the love that you show daily for George Bush?
 

Bro. Curtis

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Site Supporter
What is your position on extending health care to those who don't currently have insurance? I've assumed you don't support it. Maybe I'm wrong.

And maybe you shouldn't throw scripture around like you do, either.
 

Andy T.

Active Member
Let's make this clear... Are you claiming that whether a person will be on the left or the right of Christ depends on whether he happens to live in a country that rewards the slothful?

No, I think he's saying that unless you support liberal social policies, then you are going to hell.
 
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