Capital Punishment: Part II

[Zaac]

Was there a governing authority per se when God said what HE did in Romans 13?



Which has what, exactly, to do with capital punishment?



Which has what, exactly, to do with capital punishment.



We're not talking about revenge. We're talking about punishment for crime.



Put the crack pipe down for a minute.

Yes, babies have sinned. No one has argued otherwise. But we're not talking about killing people for sin. We're talking about a God-ordained practice of punishing criminals.



Fine. Then you kill her. You asked me what I would do and what I would do would be to treat her as a victim.

Yep. Back to IGNORE.

 

[Zaac]

Ok.

I have examined my stance, and find that to compare it to that of a Pharisee is asinine. You are the one thanking God you aren't like us.


This thread was stared to berate people. Nothing more.

So why are you still here if all you're gonna do is complain about why you thought it was started? I've captured your vote for killing the mothers so keep it moving.:thumbsup:

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Yep. Back to IGNORE.

Thank you. Honestly, watching you try to exegete scripture is downright painful. It's like watching Cade Foster try to kick a field goal.

 

[DHK]

The height of arrogance is that you think we or the Body has to mean ALL.

Then why do you use it to mean "all"?
Look at your OP:

So if the Body is to be consistent, should we not advocate capital punishment for any living mother who has chosen to abort a child?

Who is "the body"?
Who is the "we"?

They are both all-inclusive terms that do include all, by the very nature of the sentence or the grammar used.
You would be better to narrow your scope in your OP.
If we, as Baptists, in our own local churches, are to be consistent; shouldn't we advocate capital punishment for living mothers who have chosen to abort their children?

And the answer is no. They need godly counsel and wisdom as to why such a decision was wrong. Perhaps the salvation of their soul is worth more than the destruction of their of body and soul.

 

[Zaac]

Then why do you use it to mean "all"?
Look at your OP:

Because there are instances where I mean the entire Body because the entire Body should behave as Christ did.

Who is "the body"?

[/QUOTE]

All Christians. If you're confused when I say Church or Body whether I'm talking about everyone or not, just ask. I'll try to be a little more clear in the future.:flower:

Who is the "we"?

The Body of Believers.

They are both all-inclusive terms that do include all, by the very nature of the sentence or the grammar used.

No, they do not have to be inclusive . They happen to be the way I used them. If you thought they were inclusive, you shouldn't very well also define them as undefinable.

You would be better to narrow your scope in your OP.

Perhaps.

If we, as Baptists, in our own local churches, are to be consistent; shouldn't we advocate capital punishment for living mothers who have chosen to abort their children?

Sounds good.

And the answer is no. They need godly counsel and wisdom as to why such a decision was wrong. Perhaps the salvation of their soul is worth more than the destruction of their of body and soul.

But they shed "innocent" blood. Why shouldn't the Baptist church and its members( better?) advocate the same capital punishment for them as so many Baptists do for the serial killer? Does the serial killer not need Godly counsel and wisdom as to why such a decision was wrong too?

I'm asking again why so many folks on this board and in the evangelical BAPTIST CHURCH don't treat them the same? If you value life, shouldn't you value all life?

Sure the government is gonna make anti-Biblical laws. But just like with abortion, and the example of Christ in the Gospels and reinforced by the entirety of the NT, Christians...those who have received mercy should be the first to demand mercy for others.

Rather so many go along with the government and demand death. The government remains wrong PERIOD when it comes to life. Yet so many in the BAPTIST CHURCH rale against it's laws for the unborn while going along with it's capital punishment killing of the born.

It's the antithesis of what Christ taught.

 

[DHK]

But they shed "innocent" blood. Why shouldn't the Baptist church and its members( better?) advocate the same capital punishment for them as so many Baptists do for the serial killer? Does the serial killer not need Godly counsel and wisdom as to why such a decision was wrong too?

So did the government of Paul's day. Nero was the Emperor. He put to death thousands of innocent Christians who had done no wrong. They were sacrificed to wild animals as sport just because they were Christians. They were used as human torches to light up his garden.
Who brought Nero to justice? Should "we" the people, the Christians of Rome at that time. No, they couldn't. They were the persecuted, under the thumb of the Roman government.
In fact, under such a repressive regime Paul wrote these astounding words:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

I'm asking again why so many folks on this board and in the evangelical BAPTIST CHURCH don't treat them the same? If you value life, shouldn't you value all life?

Sure the government is gonna make anti-Biblical laws. But just like with abortion, and the example of Christ in the Gospels and reinforced by the entirety of the NT, Christians...those who have received mercy should be the first to demand mercy for others.

Rather so many go along with the government and demand death. The government remains wrong PERIOD when it comes to life. Yet so many in the BAPTIST CHURCH rale against it's laws for the unborn while going along with it's capital punishment killing of the born.

It's the antithesis of what Christ taught.

Did Christ ever teach the murder of mothers?
Did Christ ever teach to rebel against your government?
Did Christ ever teach vigilantism?
Did Christ ever teach taking the law into your own hands?
Did Christ ever teach "your interpretation of the Bible is the right one therefore execute it as the correct one, despite what the government and others may advise?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So why are you still here if all you're gonna do is complain about why you thought it was started? I've captured your vote for killing the mothers so keep it moving.:thumbsup:

You are no authority here. I'll move on when I want to.

 

[Zaac]

So did the government of Paul's day. Nero was the Emperor. He put to death thousands of innocent Christians who had done no wrong. They were sacrificed to wild animals as sport just because they were Christians. They were used as human torches to light up his garden.
Who brought Nero to justice? Should "we" the people, the Christians of Rome at that time. No, they couldn't. They were the persecuted, under the thumb of the Roman government.
In fact, under such a repressive regime Paul wrote these astounding words:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Again, that's part of the point. Why are so many Baptists advocating the same thing that the government does?

Did Christ ever teach the murder of mothers?

Did He teach to kill those who have broken the law? On the contrary HE taght and exampled mercy and that no sinful man was righteously capable of making such a judgment.

Did Christ ever teach to rebel against your government?

When it's in conflict against Him? Yep, sure did. Otherwise there would be no need for any Christian to get upset about abortion.

Did Christ ever teach vigilantism?

Vigilantism against what?

Did Christ ever teach taking the law into your own hands?

Taking the law into your own hands to do what?

Did Christ ever teach "your interpretation of the Bible is the right one therefore execute it as the correct one, despite what the government and others may advise?

Christ exampled that He is the WAY. If your way is in contradiction to HIS way, then yes His word says to use His word to correct and train in RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I could care less what the government and others say if what they say is at odds with what Christ says and demonstrated.

 

[Zaac]

You are no authority here. I'll move on when I want to.

Please feel free to. Just know that I've captured your vote for killing the mothers.

But take your time.:flower:

 

[Salty]

please feel free to. Just know that i've captured your vote for killing the mothers.

But take your time.:flower:

not the way the question was asked!!!!!

 

[DHK]

Again, that's part of the point. Why are so many Baptists advocating the same thing that the government does?

Obviously they agree with the government and not with you and don't feel the need to speak out against it.

Did He teach to kill those who have broken the law? On the contrary HE taght and exampled mercy and that no sinful man was righteously capable of making such a judgment.

Revelation is progressive. Wait till you get to the epistles where Paul expounds more on this topic. BTW, Jesus never condemned the execution of the two thieves hanging on either side of him. He used the opportunity to grant forgiveness and eternal life to one of them.
In Rom.13, Paul never condemned capital punishment. He said submit to them that rule over you.

When it's in conflict against Him? Yep, sure did. Otherwise there would be no need for any Christian to get upset about abortion.

Abortion is the killing of the unborn. You are upset about it. Right?

Christ exampled that He is the WAY. If your way is in contradiction to HIS way, then yes His word says to use His word to correct and train in RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Christ Himself was executed, and so was Stephen. All of the apostles were martyred except for John. Most of them by a government authority. Paul himself was executed by the Roman government as was Peter. Paul still taught to submit to the higher authorities. He appealed to Caesar, and stood before him twice, knowing full well he would lose his appeal the second time. Yet he went willingly, as did Christ, and Stephen--as lambs before the slaughter.

I could care less what the government and others say if what they say is at odds with what Christ says and demonstrated.

They all submitted to the government.
In a democracy we deserve the government we get; submit to it.

 

[Don]

Well, now. Back around post #60, I pointed out that Zaac was dodging a question: what does Zaac propose we do with those that are unrepentent about their murders, and have voiced or otherwise exhibited their willingness to commit murder again?

31 or so posts later, and not even an attempt to provide an answer.

Are we to assume that Zaac's beliefs stop at "Christians are wrong for advocating the death penalty", and he hasn't put any study or thought into it beyond that?

 

[Revmitchell]

Well, now. Back around post #60, I pointed out that Zaac was dodging a question: what does Zaac propose we do with those that are unrepentent about their murders, and have voiced or otherwise exhibited their willingness to commit murder again?

31 or so posts later, and not even an attempt to provide an answer.

Are we to assume that Zaac's beliefs stop at "Christians are wrong for advocating the death penalty", and he hasn't put any study or thought into it beyond that?

What we are to assume is that he only wants to be able to say that he has collected our votes. His intentions with this thread beyond that are nill.

 

[Aaron]

Please, people. Quit feeding the commies.

 

[Judith]

Christians profess to be pro-life but also say they are okay with capital punishment.

It's even been said that Genesis 9:6 is the justification for capital punishment.
“Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.

So if the Body is to be consistent, should we not advocate capital punishment for any living mother who has chosen to abort a child?

Yes we should. If abortion is not murder then no one should stand against it. To not hold that the woman should face the death penalty is hypocritical if one stands for the death penalty for murder because abortion is murder. A child in the womb is no less alive than one outside the womb.