I don't have to. Almost every day I get complaints of one sort of another of the "carnality" posted on this board. Sometimes it is in the form of posts that need to be edited. Sometimes entire threads need to be shut down. Please don't tell me that there is no such thing as a carnal Christian when there is an overwhelming abundance of it posted on this board, so much so that many threads have to be completely shut down.
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Carnal Christians: Yes? No?
- Thread starter Tom Butler
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There is no false accusation.
Yes, you accused me of personal attacks and of "taking the word "carnal" out of Romans 8 and tried to define its usage in 1Cor.3 by its usage in Romans 8."
Your basic answer is "there is no such thing as a carnal Christian," after I quote a passage where Paul says "You are carnal." You still are in denial of God's Word, and still refuse to explain it.
Actually, I did address it. You've yet to address the passage I cited from Romans.
And for the record, James didn't write Romans or 1 Corinthians.
There is no false accusation here. The entire discussion revolved around 1Cor.3:3,4. I explained to you that words are defined by their context. You cannot define the word "carnal" as it is used in 1Cor.3 by the way it is used in Rom.8. They both have different contexts. How is that a personal attack. It is instruction. I explained to you that it is basic hermeneutics. That is not a personal attack. Where do you get that from?Yes, you accused me of personal attacks and of "taking the word "carnal" out of Romans 8 and tried to define its usage in 1Cor.3 by its usage in Romans 8."
Again, I told you that Romans does not address 1Cor.3. You have not once addressed 1Cor.3:3,4. Why not? Why are you so apprehensive of directly dealing with the passage of Scripture under discussion? I will state again that 1Cor.3:3,4 cannot be rightly explained with Romans 8.Actually, I did address it. You've yet to address the passage I cited from Romans.
No, he didn't. I didn't say he did. You asked a question about being at enmity with God. In fact it was a bold exclamation. I gave you the answer to it by quoting James 4:4. And then you had the audacity to say that James was not speaking to Christians. Again, no personal attacks. In each case you have not answered 1Cor.3:3,4. But you have come across with personal attacks in your posts.And for the record, James didn't write Romans or 1 Corinthians.
freeatlast
New Member
If the argument here is about the word carnal one has to determined what exactly is meant by it in the context it is being used. Certainly in the Corinthian church there were those who was exhibiting traits of the lost (carnal) in certain of their actions.
The passage in Romans 8 is talking about a carnal mind, not simply carnal actions. The carnal mind is one that has no desire to follow God and the things of God are foolishness to them. In the case of the Corinthian's in chapter 3 Paul is dealing with certain actions in certain believers that are carnal in nature and he names what they are, and if they are really saved they would deal with them once confronted or pointed out as such. One problem is however even though a person could be a Christian and exibit the things mentioned in chapter 3 it does not mean they are. It all depends on if they come out of these things once confronted. In fact in this case they must not have come out as we read in 2 Corinthians where Paul questions their salvation.
Also in chapter 6 Paul warns that there are certain actions where a person who claims to be saved those actions makes his/her claim false and those things are listed. He even goes so far as to warn them/us not to be deceived and think that this claim of carnality and salvation can be extended to every area of life or sin. It cannot.
So was there some carnal actions on the part of some in Corinth? Yes, but also true is that if they were engaged in anything mentioned in the list in chapter 6 they were not really Christians.
These are possible actions of a believer who is carnal;
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
These are those who are lost;
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
The passage in Romans 8 is talking about a carnal mind, not simply carnal actions. The carnal mind is one that has no desire to follow God and the things of God are foolishness to them. In the case of the Corinthian's in chapter 3 Paul is dealing with certain actions in certain believers that are carnal in nature and he names what they are, and if they are really saved they would deal with them once confronted or pointed out as such. One problem is however even though a person could be a Christian and exibit the things mentioned in chapter 3 it does not mean they are. It all depends on if they come out of these things once confronted. In fact in this case they must not have come out as we read in 2 Corinthians where Paul questions their salvation.
Also in chapter 6 Paul warns that there are certain actions where a person who claims to be saved those actions makes his/her claim false and those things are listed. He even goes so far as to warn them/us not to be deceived and think that this claim of carnality and salvation can be extended to every area of life or sin. It cannot.
So was there some carnal actions on the part of some in Corinth? Yes, but also true is that if they were engaged in anything mentioned in the list in chapter 6 they were not really Christians.
These are possible actions of a believer who is carnal;
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
These are those who are lost;
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
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I'm with DHK. It's as plain as the nose on most folks face.
I agree with DHK also, although doctrine should not be a matter of popularity. But DHK showed scripture that I believe clearly says a Christian can be carnal. In fact, the word carnal is also translated "fleshly" and Christians are begged to abstain from "fleshly lusts".
1 Pet 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
The word "fleshly" here is the same Greek word translated "carnal". If a Christian cannot be fleshly or carnal, why would Peter beg (beseech) believers to abstain from fleshly lusts?
DHK said:And then you had the audacity to say that James was not speaking to Christians.
Actually, I never mentioned James.
But you have come across with personal attacks in your posts.
Actually, I haven't made any personal attacks.
DHK, are you a Christian?
Tom Butler
New Member
DHK, are you a Christian?
This is over the line.
This is over the line.
How so? I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm just asking him a question.
No, you are not.How so? I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm just asking him a question.
Posting rules:
4. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. The board has an edit button enabled. We encourage you to use it and edit your own words. Moderators and Administrators will be visibly proactive in dealing with potentially offensive situations. Posts of a violent or threatening nature, either implicitly or explicitly, will be deleted, and the poster's membership revoked. We encourage personal problems with other members be resolved privately via email or personal messaging.
It has been the position of the administration that questioning the salvation of another member of the board falls into this category of "Personal attacks," and should be dealt with as such.
No, you are not.
Posting rules:
It has been the position of the administration that questioning the salvation of another member of the board falls into this category of "Personal attacks," and should be dealt with as such.
There's a difference between openly questioning whether or not someone is a Christian and asking them if they're a question.
Is there?There's a difference between openly questioning whether or not someone is a Christian and asking them if they're a question.
Let's try your theory out.
"DHK, Are you a Christian?"
John, Did you stop drinking yesterday?
John When did you stop beating your mother?
They are just questions John. I am just asking. A clear cut answer would be appreciated.
Is there?
Let's try your theory out.
"DHK, Are you a Christian?"
John, Did you stop drinking yesterday?
John When did you stop beating your mother?
They are just questions John. I am just asking. A clear cut answer would be appreciated.
No, I stopped drinking about five years ago and I've never beat my mother.
See how easy that was?
By the way, the difference between my question and yours is that (a) mine was asked sincerely and (b) you purposely chose "gotcha" questions, asked in such a way that either answer is expected to paint me in a bad light, whereas I asked you a simple yes or no question to find out more about why you might have the attitude you have.
Personally, I was sure that you'd just answer "yes" and let it drop.
Now go back to the OP, the one that I answered on the first page.Personally, I was sure that you'd just answer "yes" and let it drop.
In 1Cor.3:3,4, Paul,writing to the believers at Corinth, addresses them as carnal. He clearly states that they are carnal Christians. You have failed to address that passage in its context yet. Are you willing to give it a try yet? If Paul states that there are carnal Christians, then there are carnal Christians. Case closed. It is fairly simple.
Now go back to the OP, the one that I answered on the first page.
In 1Cor.3:3,4, Paul,writing to the believers at Corinth, addresses them as carnal. He clearly states that they are carnal Christians. You have failed to address that passage in its context yet. Are you willing to give it a try yet? If Paul states that there are carnal Christians, then there are carnal Christians. Case closed. It is fairly simple.
It's been my experience that people who feel they have to be right all the time are very insecure.
Unfortunately, what you didn't stop to consider is that I'm not like you. I'm not one of those people who believes I have to prove myself correct and bulldoze over others to do it. So I'm perfectly happy to conceede that passage to you. What I'm not willing to conceede is that carnality never refers to the unsaved or that the Romans passages refer to Christians.
I would strongly encourage you to prayerfully and thoughtfully consider the manner in which you treat your brothers and sisters in Christ.
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You talk about pride and arrogance. Most of this thread has been devoted to the exposition of one passage of Scripture, one which you in your pride and arrogance have refused time and again to exegete or even comment on. When speaking of Scripture I have answered every Scripture you have brought forward. Many times my answers have only provoked personal attacks instead of intelligent responses. It seems as if you don't know how to carry on a conversation or you are void of Biblical knowledge and know how to use the Scriptures. It is refreshing to discuss the Scriptures with those who are willing to, but with those who are simply smart-alecs filled with personal attacks, I pity.It's been my experience that people who feel they have to be right all the time are very insecure.
Unfortunately, what you didn't stop to consider is that I'm not like you. I'm not one of those people who believes I have to prove myself correct and bulldoze over others to do it. So I'm perfectly happy to conceede that passage to you. What I'm not willing to conceede is that carnality never refers to the unsaved or that the Romans passages refer to Christians.
I would strongly encourage you to prayerfully and thoughtfully consider the manner in which you treat your brothers and sisters in Christ.
You talk about pride and arrogance. Most of this thread has been devoted to the exposition of one passage of Scripture, one which you in your pride and arrogance have refused time and again to exegete or even comment on.
Actually, I did comment on it.
Many times my answers have only provoked personal attacks instead of intelligent responses.
Nope. I never attacked you.
It is refreshing to discuss the Scriptures with those who are willing to, but with those who are simply smart-alecs filled with personal attacks, I pity.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I won't waste anymore of my time trying to talk to you. I will be praying for you, though.
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