Featured Carnal Disobedient Christianity vs. Biblical Obedient Christianity

He did not even mention you....stop being paranoid. You say he called YOU that....he did not.

You are devisive. It is you who claim this is going on. PT spoke as the scriptures do of false professors.

That is a legitimate concern and warning to give in discussing this topic.

YOU INFER MANY THINGS that are not so. The posting was good for a few days and you do this.

You have not provided one quote to back up your claim. This quote does not say what you want it to.

You accused him of holding to a works based salvation, then gave a dishonest response trying to explain it away.

this is false;

[/B]

This is WHAT you did say;

This kind of dishonest posting should not take place on a Christian board.

 

I am not the one being dishonest.

But let me suggest this. I believe both of you should contact "John of Japan," a longstanding member of this board and former missionary to Japan. He is the grandson of Dr. John R. Rice and has just completed writing his biography. Contact him, and ask for his biography. Learn about him first hand as it were. Stop with the wicked innuendo and accusations of the brethren. Stop calling them unsaved. Find out what he really believed. Ask his grandson who is on the board. Stop with the insults and slander. Go find out the truth for yourself. Read his book.

Then when you have done that, perhaps we can continue this conversation in a more intelligent and amicable way.

 

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me.

To follow Christ is to obey Christ.

Christ’s teaching is abundantly clear: Christ’s sheep will obey Him.

They will hear His voice and obey, whether by the Gospel unto salvation, or by rebuke unto repentance, turning from sin as a sheep gone astray.

No matter. Jesus is clear.

His Elect will be brought into the Kingdom under obedience to His voice.

It is obedience to His voice that proves one’s love for Christ.

If you love me you will keep my commandments. (ESV)

Obedient Christians are the friends of Christ.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

The disobedient professing Christians are the enemies of Christ.

Their continued disobedience proves hatred for Christ.

Disobedient professing Christians have not the Spirit of God who sanctifies them.

They are still in the flesh; their wills having not been made subject to the will of God.

Rather than be called ‘overcomers,’ they are still overcome with sin.

Only overcomers will enter New Jerusalem.

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name

Biblical Christians are not perfect, but when confronted with sin they will repent and strive to cease such disobedience.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Make no mistake.

Carnal ‘Christianity’ is anti-Christianity.

It is the Christianity of reprobates.I have not mentioned Dr.Rice. He did what he did unto the Lord years ago.

You did this. PT mentioned the warning passages speaking of the unsaved.
He did not accuse you. He did mention Dr.Rice he has an opinion on him.
The part I agree with was his description of true Christians;

 

That is your first mistake.

Now you judge the salvation of others according to your standards and not Jesus. This is a good reason why you should not be here. It gives an indication that you yourself don't understand the truth of the gospel.

Again, this has nothing to do with "another Christian." Your false theology is apparent.
Either he is a Christian or he is not, carnal not withstanding.

See above. Either he is a Christian or he is not. You say he is a carnal Christian. So at least you admit now that carnal Christians exist. They are carnal but still saved. Christians don't lose their salvation because of their carnality.

That is not what the Word says. It is what you have read into the word, just like the Catholics read into Acts 16:31 (the word "household"), infant baptism. It must be so. You are reading into Scripture your own presuppositions. The word "regeneration" is not there.

What did Jesus say:
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
--He heard the Word of God (see Acts 2:41). They kept it. That means they obeyed the word of God after they were saved. Their obedience after salvation brought forth fruit.
They: heard, retained, understood, believed and acted on that belief. They were saved, and then obeyed. The Bible says nothing different. It doesn't insert Calvin's doctrines here which you infer.

 

Protestant's main rant was against John R. Rice. He clearly stated that Rice did not have the Spirit of God and therefore was unsaved.
You agreed with him. For this you need to repent.

 

I told you what part I agreed with....

J.R.RICE is not a member of the BB.

Protestant is....

you said this to him questioning and denying his salvation;

 

Let me lay it out for you in terms you understand since you clearly don't understand either his position, nor mine.

First. Protestant denies the teaching given in 1Cor.5:1-4 that a Christian can be carnal, as is evidenced throughout every part of this epistle of Paul to the Corinthians. He was addressing carnal Corinthians and their carnal lifestyles. Go back to my post and read my explanation. Don't ask for it here.

Second. Protestant believes that every "carnal Christian" is an unsaved person.

Third. Protestant believes that John R. Rice is a carnal Christian and therefore unsaved.

Fourth. I challenged Protestant on his beliefs and he has not answered to this day. We all sin. Sin is out of the carnal or sin nature. When we sin it is not from our spiritual nature is it? No, it is from our carnal nature.
Therefore Protestant has two choices:
1. He must admit that he believes in entire sanctification--sinlessness (as some Arminians do), OR,
2. He must admit that Christians act carnally as did the members of the Corinthian church.
--He has not answered that yet. Obviously he is at the horns of a dilemma.

Every member of this board is either sinless or acts out of their carnal nature at times.
Protestant believes therefor, that every member of this board is unsaved. That is the inference.
There is no such thing as a "carnal Christian." Then admit you live a sinless life. Do you sin out of your spiritual nature?

 

[QUOTE="DHK,

That is false witness.
He never said this!
Show where he said this!
He does not answer you because you accuse him falsely.

 

Hey Mr. Hypocrite! Now isn't that what you have said about John Calvin and myself scores of times?

 

No, I have never said that about you.
I may have said something like that in relation to John Calvin in light of the murders he committed. He didn't show the fruit of the Spirit in the way he managed the affairs of the church or the city of Geneva, which he directed, either directly or indirectly.

 

Why do you bifurcate?
A Christian is a Christian, one who follows Christ, a saint set apart for the glory of God, a believer in Christ, regenerated, etc. There is only one kind of Christian.

Thus your admission:
"Christ’s visible Church worldwide consists of both the carnal and the born-again."

is that the "Church" is made of carnal or disobedient Christians and those that are obedient.
Both are Christians, saved, believers in Christ, heaven-bound, no matter which way you look at it.
There is only one kind of Christian.

A sheep is a sheep is a sheep.

 

John R. Rice's grandson is a member of this board. You owe him an apology.
You agreed with Protestant's entire post in principle.

 

You are lying.

You're just compounding lies. You've accumulated a very tall mountain so far.

 

There is both a search function and a quote function. Use it, or recant.

 

You do not read my posts nor do you seem to understand them.

Paul wrote to a carnal church full of carnal Christians living Carnal lifestyles. If you want a fuller explanation go back and find it in this thread.
However, Protestant believes "carnal Christian" equals unsaved. Ask him.
Protestant believes John R. Rice is a carnal Christian and therefore unsaved. Ask him.

Everyone on this board has sinned at sometime in their Christian life, if not everyday. True or false?
Does sin come from your carnal/sin nature or from your spiritual nature? Which one?
Is sin of the Holy Spirit?

Since Protestant denies the carnal nature, and states that all said "carnal Christians" are unsaved, the only option left for him is sinless perfection or entire sanctification. This he has not denied or clarified.
Which one do you believe Icon?
Are you perfect? Sinless?
Does your sin come from the Spirit of God.

Or does your sin come from your carnal nature like the Bible says it does?

 

I don't want to dredge up your vile filth.

 

In all the obligatory BB name-calling and vitriol it was difficult at first (starting at the end of this thread) to find something with an actual Bible text.

But then I found this.

1 Corinthians -- nice!

Paul does say that the man in 1Cor 5 is lost - as it turns out.

1 Cor 5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.


So if that guy fits your definition of "Carnal Christian" then
1. They are not allowed in church.
2. Christians are not allowed to even eat with them
3. They are turned over to Satan.

By contrast in a recent post - I saw the claim that if someone is not carnal they "must be sinless" - never ever committing a single sin. But in the division of 1cor 5 we do not have the "sinless" vs "one person that happened to covet one day" - rather we have church members vs someone who was totally lost and in church - with extreme lost behavior not even exhibited by the average lost person.

"By their fruits you SHALL know them" Matt 7.

Now as to the problem of unsaved Christians in Corinth.

1Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God

 

Then just move on. I do not accuse you of being unsaved; never have.