I assumed nothing. I don't know if they are saved of not. The one living with the person would have a better idea of the life lived before going astray.
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Carnal or Lost
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I assumed nothing. I don't know if they are saved of not. The one living with the person would have a better idea of the life lived before going astray.
Plenty, the biggest being the constant inward tug of the Holy Spirit not to mention the circumstances that continued to play out in my life. You asked how, I simply gave the answer how.
Listen WD....life comes at all of us. It is one thing to struggle with challenges in life and marriage and on the job, It is another thing to just be living a selfish life. Let's expand this a bit....for the church to occupy until He returns[lk19] we have to be healthy and looking out for each other.
This idea of Christians going off like lone rangers and no one helping each other, or no one caring enough to prevent people from making ship wreck of the faith is not the biblical model.
Remember it was Cain who asked..." Am I my brothers keeper?"
You constantly argue against points I never make.
That is quite the statement. Do you just throw Heb.12 out the window.
God chastens his own. If he doesn't have undisciplined children to chasten why is that verse in the Bible??
Who is he chastening? Disciplining? Those that have reached entire sanctification perhaps??
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Again, this is why you get so many folks who are for the whole "carnal" thing. It lets everybody think they and there hades raising seed are saved while there is no evidence of said salvation.
You don't go 15-20 years not acknowledging the One you love. It's something else if you are acknowledging your sin and seeking God's forgiveness. and GROWING.
It's another to completely not pursue the things of Christ, to not want to live holy, and to have no contrition for one's sin and there be no evidence of being transformed more and more into the likeness of Christ.
Praise God for salvation and snatching us all from the fires. But a lot of folks just weren't saved and are just too ashamed to admit it.
You don't spit in your wife's face for 15-20 years out in public and think folks are supposed to believe you love her. So what makes folks think that it's any different for the relationship with Christ?
This is why Scripture says to EXAMINE yourself.
I see this so often out of mothers who lose kids and they want to believe their child has gone to heaven when the child has lived a life as wicked as the day is long. But it makes them feel better that he was just carnal. Saved of course, but carnal.
It's UNBIBLICAL.
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we have Zaac to tell us now how all interpersonal as well as spiritual relationships happen. I've known parents and children who didn't talk for decades due to selfishness.
I don't think so.DHK, I think you might have just repeated what Icon kinda sorta meant.
He said:
I do not believe God has any undisciplined children...
Who does God discipline? God disciplines "carnal Christians," those who walk in disobedience to him.
Does he believe that?
:wavey: maybe I am not understanding your posts the way you intend them?
Do you agree with what I said then?
DHK,
Kyred has it correct. My statement is based squarely on Hebrews 12.
All Christians are corrected by God.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Where you persist in error DHK is subscribing to the carnal Christian heresy.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Yep sure do. There's a Biblical model for it and that's what you've been given. Your personal relationships will mirror your relationship with Christ. You treat Him like crap, and you'll treat everyone else the same way.
You love Him with all your heart, soul, mind and body and you will likewise display that same sort of love for your neighbor.
It's not complicated.
Perhaps your seeming offense is arising because you know you weren't what you thought you were for 15 years.
There is no love in selfishness. You really think it's a display of love to not talk to a person you supposedly love for 15 years?
Are you presenting to us that you can go 15 years without acknowledging your wife or speaking to her and it's a display of love?
Yup. So you have no biblical support for judging anyone's salvation based on behavior. Nobody does.
And nobody touched my fat preacher comparison. Is someone who overeats for their entire life lost ?
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First of all I don't believe in any heresy, so stop throwing that word around.
Secondly, as Paul clearly put it to the Corinthians:
"Ye are carnal." There are obviously carnal Christians. That is who he was addressing. I believe Paul, not you. You have the problem with belief in this matter. Check 1Cor.3:1-3. Read it. It means exactly what it says.
1. Paul addresses them as brethren.
2. Paul tells them they are carnal.
Therefore they are carnal brethren or carnal Christians. Case closed.
As quoted above:
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
--But in 1Cor.3:1-3, they are brethren or sons, and therefore endure chastening.
DHK,
Remember... I offered you solid teaching on this error.....You did not want it. So you can deny the teaching but I do not think that is wise. You do not understand the passage.
they were acting out of character...in this one sin....they were not carnal in the heart like natural men are. your description denies the work of the Spirit DHK.
http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/s...-carnal-christian-heresy-by-brian-schwertley/
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11110485122
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=11110485918
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Your response is frightful Icon. I can exegete the passage for you and have done so.
The only answer you give me in responding to sound exegesis is: "You deny the work of the Spirit."
What a terrible thing to say!
I gave you the Word of God, expounded it for you, and that is your response!
Truly amazing!
DHK
you refused to listen to these sermons and read these articles that is on you.
you expounded nothing....the sermons I offer you do expound it...you refuse to listen and learn...
http://banneroftruth.org/us/resources/articles/2002/are-there-carnal-christians/
http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/wd_index.htm...listen to Pastor Downing ...expound, which you cannot do...
or Pastor Martin....they know what the text says...you do not.
click on the link...go to Pastor Downings sermons and click on the carnal Christian heresy...if you want to learn. No excuses DHK...listen
read;
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_carnal_christian.html
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1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
You want me to click on your silly links to listen to some person who supposedly is going to contradict what Paul has already declared FOUR TIMES in these four verses. He repeats that they are carnal Christians four different times. How can it be any more clear except to those who refuse to see the truth and have outright rejected it!
I don't need the opinions of men, Icon; the Word of God is plainly set before me and is very clear.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Well Dhk........These men actually know how to exegete the passage.....they show from the Greek text how Paul uses the natural man....The carnal......and as carnal in contrast....
Here you call the actual teaching of the word of God......Silly....? No wonder you have no understanding on the teaching.
Anyone who is not lazy......or wilfully ignorant of the passage...will listen to the sermons and see quite clearly you have no understanding of it.
You chide Winman for making things up.....and rightly so. In this case you are doing the same thing......and as usual. ....Our friend QF....gives the thumbs up to that which is false.
I am content to let the reader read and listen to the truth......While you try to twist it and attempt to suggest that I do not understand Paul here......very sad DHK....consider your ways.
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