Catholic church excommunicates 9 year old for aborting twins

[Matt Black]

Story here. One of rare circumstances where abortion is justified IMO - if nothing else because otherwise there'd be three dead children instead of two. I see the rapist hasn't been excommunicated - he's free to turn up at Mass and receice communion every Sunday but his victim isn't because she didn't want to die .

Funny; I spend a lot of my time here defending the Catholic Church against its detractors, but this one really stumps me...

 

[Jon-Marc]

Interesting. They have no problem with her rapist, but they condemn his 9-year-old victim. Why isn't her rapist in prison where he belongs?

 

[StefanM]

. Insanity.

 

[windcatcher]

Sorry about the sarcasim shown in the following of my post...... BUT

Who cares what the Catholic Church Does! It isn't God. Only God has the power to forgive or judge sin. No matter how big the church or how many 'belong' it is just an organization made up of faillable people...... And this church is like none other in its anomoly of restraint and tolerance, superstition and truth, pagan inspired artifacts and buildings and icons and furnishings and elevation of the ministry to a central priesthood and authority which is not Jesus Christ.

I hope for whatever guidance of faith in God which this precious child has had, will not be undone by the stupidity of those who claim to act for Him...... and that the child will be blessed through the experience of her trial and tragedy, to know the real Jesus and have a real faith not dependant on an organization or building but on the Word and finished work of our Savior. May those who are of the fellowship of faith hold her in their prayers and surround her with compassion and encouragement!

Whether abortion was necessary or not, right or wrong, a horrible crime against life or a necessary medical decision for her to survive, it is done and there is no undoing what is past. This minor has lived through an ordeal and much which has scarred her innocence and joy for life. She needs forgiveness, healing, love, restoration, understanding....... and most of all the Savior and Comforter: Not abandonment. Maybe in a twisted sort of way, this is the best thing the Catholic Chruch could do for her is excommunication: God can take saddness and turn it into joy. God can undo the evil of man's intention. I pray God has a good work for this child.

 

[Matt Black]

It matters to this child what the Catholic Church does to her and says about her.

 

[donnA]

It matters to this child what the Catholic Church does to her and says about her.

I agree, she was raped, and she was condemned, yet her rapist, nothing. It says they have no problem with rape, which is a whole seperate judgement against her. With no judgement that the rapist did wrong.

 

[targus]

In the interest of truth...

The article says that the mother and the doctor were excommunicated - not the little girl.

 

[Scarlett O.]

She needs forgiveness....

What does she need forgiveness for?

Of all the 9 year-olds that I know, being a teacher, there isn't one of them who even knows the details of what an abortion is or can fathom the spiritual gravity of it.

She's been raped, yet cannot fathom sex and all of the physical, spiritual, and emotional principles involved.

She's nine years old.

All she was told was that she was going to die without this operation.

What does she need to be forgiven for in these circumstances?

 

[windcatcher]

What does she need forgiveness for?

Of all the 9 year-olds that I know, being a teacher, there isn't one of them who even knows the details of what an abortion is or can fathom the spiritual gravity of it.

She's been raped, yet cannot fathom sex and all of the physical, spiritual, and emotional principles involved.

She's nine years old.

All she was told was that she was going to die without this operation.

What does she need to be forgiven for in these circumstances?

Okay............no forgiveness .....who needs forgivenesss ....... Right? No one but criminals and sinners. None one here like that, right? Forgiveness? Ha! That's real funny! Only guilty people need forgiveness right?... The innocence can just go on living their lives, right...... without forgiveness....just a life of bitterness, scars, memories of lost innocence, a life which can't go forward because she's stuck in the pain of her past.

No. Its not her fault, nor her making....... but it will undo her. You see, one can't be free of the bitterness others have done to one until one find's a way to forgive. This child has been hurt many times over by folks in authority.... an evil step parent, a mother who did not protect her and made decisions for her, doctors who invaded her body and took her children, the church which probably baptised her as a baby and accepts the perpetrator of crimes against her and covers him while it abandons her and represents to her that God can't love her because it wont.



But I subscribe to forgiveness as being the need within all of us.... until we find it at the cross. Until then we don't forget and we don't forgive until we know something of it in ourselves. She may never forget...... but the traumatic memories can be overcome if she ever experiences forgiveness. All that we begin to know of God first starts with the understanding and experiences we have in relationship with others. All this childs supports systems have broken down and they've broken her. Staying broken will cripple her living. To become 'unbroken' or mended or receiving healing for the violence done against her..... takes forgiveness and lots of love. Children don't have to be guilty to feel guilty, to feel they did something wrong to cause a circumstance which was beyond their control. If you are a teacher you should be well acquainted with this part of child psychology. It doesn 't take a rocket scienctist to understand this and many parents are intuitive enough to see this w/o a degree. It is a process of growing up and coming to a clearer understanding of what happened to her. Until she is able to find someone to talk to, who will listen with their heart as well as their ears....... and help guide her through the jungle of her own internal struggles and interpretation of trust and relationships betrayed by others..... she will blame herself for what little she does understand. If not for guilt, then for her feelings of guilt, she will need to learn forgiveness.... and it and her healing will start with herself but it wont be complete until it finds its fullness in her ability to forgive others who have hurt her.

It is the gift God gives us through his Son. Denied this gift, our living is hopeless.

 

[Matt Black]

In the interest of truth...

The article says that the mother and the doctor were excommunicated - not the little girl.

Missed that - thanks. My reaction? "Oh that makes it alright then - a mother excommunicated for saving the life of her daughter and her doctor excommunicated for saving the life of his patient."

 

[donnA]

What does she need forgiveness for?

Of all the 9 year-olds that I know, being a teacher, there isn't one of them who even knows the details of what an abortion is or can fathom the spiritual gravity of it.

She's been raped, yet cannot fathom sex and all of the physical, spiritual, and emotional principles involved.

She's nine years old.

All she was told was that she was going to die without this operation.

What does she need to be forgiven for in these circumstances?

Shes 9 years old, she didn't decide to have an abortion, it was done to her, by her parents, who decided she was having an abortion, and the doctor who preformed it, she had nothing to do with it. Otherwise, our won children could decide they do not want medical procedures and medications we wish for them to have. I know my granddaughter whose been sick with one thing or another since her birth and been in the hospital multiple times,with multiple tests and procedures has no say what so ever about the procedures and medications shes given. And I suspect no one on this board allows their child to make these decisions either.

 

[donnA]

Yet the rapist goes on with life as usual, has not been excommunicated, thereby the church giving it's approval of rape of a child.

 

[abcgrad94]

That poor little girl! The Catholic church has had so many scandals involving children, you'd think they would reach out to this family and help them through the healing process. How very sad!

 

[tinytim]

Also the poor little baby that was destroyed in the process...

The rapist should be charged with Rape and Murder.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Missed that - thanks. My reaction? "Oh that makes it alright then - a mother excommunicated for saving the life of her daughter and her doctor excommunicated for saving the life of his patient."

Well, yes, that makes sense--to whoever condemned them for doing that. I guess they should have let the girl die. Since the Catholic religion sees nothing wrong with rape--what about murder? Isn't rape a crime wherever that happened? They need to find a real church where the victim isn't condemned, if there is such a place. That's why I've gotten away from churches (Baptist). I got tired of all the hypocrisy and being condemned because of being divorced.

 

[Allan]

Story here. One of rare circumstances where abortion is justified IMO - if nothing else because otherwise there'd be three dead children instead of two. I see the rapist hasn't been excommunicated - he's free to turn up at Mass and receice communion every Sunday but his victim isn't because she didn't want to die .

Funny; I spend a lot of my time here defending the Catholic Church against its detractors, but this one really stumps me...

A point of correction - You keep saying she would have died. That is not true. The doctors presumed she might not be able deliver the babies without it being in a life threatening situation because she was skinny. Not that they stated she 'would' die but it was their assumption.

In a related situation - I have a 10 year old cousin (well "had", it has been about 18 years ago) where she became pregnant through a rape situation. The doctors told her mother the same thing because she was a very slim little girl. Kill the unborn because she might not survive. However they did not abort the unborn child (and they weren't even believers) but kept the child. Yes, kept it - as in, it was born properly and also with some medical help. But both are alive and well today with no complication that were presumed by the doctors. (I say doctors plural because I believe there were two that seen them but it has been a while so don't quote me on that part).

We tend to forget that women have been having babies far longer than the abortionists give the human race credit for. And some were having them in their early teens. Granted due to lack of medical ability like now many died. However we are no longer in the dark ages, now are we? No. Was she? Again, No.

 

[Matt Black]

You're missing the point: the doctors are qualified to make that judgment call, not you or me - or the Catholic Church. Their considered advice, based on their patient's age, build and the fact this was not one baby but two, was that in all likelihood she and her twins would die if she attempted to carry the pregnancy to term. Faced with that medical situation, I see nothing morally wrong in the decision taken; indeed it would have been more wrong to not take it, since in all likelihood there would be three dead children instead of two.

 

[BigBossman]

In some ways I have to agree with Windcatcher. I personally, could care less what the Catholic church has to say or think. I think that its sad that they are missing the point.

Its a tough call, but I also agree with Matt. If were was the parent of that 9 year old girl who was raped, here's how my thought process would work:

Can my daughter safely have the baby?
If the answer is yes, then she will have the baby. My concern would be how this would affect her. If my daughter could safely have the baby, I would ensure that happens. If we are financially unable to support another child, giving the baby up for adoption would be the best solution.

If the answer is no, you still have to consider how this will affect her. Aborting a baby is not an easy choice. You have to decide whether or not to risk your daughter's life to have the baby. If there is ABSOLUTELY NTHER ALTERNATIVE to safely have the baby, then I would have my daughter's pregnancy aborted. I wouldn't want to risk having two dead children on my hands.

After that, I would have to have a funeral. That was a life that was snuffed out.

The person that raped that girl deserves the maximum penalty allowed by law & then some. All I could say is if it were my daughter that was raped, the person that did it had better hope the police gets him before I do.

 

[Scarlett O.]

nevermind..........

 

[windcatcher]

nevermind..........

No I wont 'nevermind'.

You made a good point. You were right to say that the little girl had done nothing wrong to need or expect forgiveness.

And I answered your post sarcastically and insensitive...... and I'm sorry.