Catholic or Christian

[Rufus_1611]

Rufus_1611, I appreciate your posts very much. You are correct in your observations. Indeed, it was Catholics who carried out the Crusades, not Christians. I often see Catholicism described "Judaism in New Robes," and I certainly agree. The Talmud, the "instruction" for Judaism, has been replaced by Catholic tradition. One must look with care at the similarities, however, between Catholicism and the charismatic movement. Charismatics look for signs and wonders, for actual visitations by God (how many report discussing things with Jesus, in person!?!), while Catholics crawl up a mountain on their knees to see a "visitation" by Mary, or her image on a restroom door, or have themselves nailed to a cross. In those areas Catholicism and the charismatic movement are not too far from holding hands! It will only get worse as the cry for an ecumenical, neutral God / church grows stronger. May I suggest that you read items posted in the politics section of the BB? Persons who identify themselves as Christian there endorse secularism on a regular basis! God's blessings as you continue your study in his word.

Thanks for the kind words. I agree with all that you site and would add that not only is there Judaism in new robes but the old robes are still kicking hard as well and they sure do adore that wicked book.

 

[Rufus_1611]

There are numerous reasons, doctrinal, why I am not a Catholic. But my, or your, interpretation of doctrine is not the same as anyone else on this board, much less in all the Christian churches. The church I belong to comes closest to what I believe, Catholics do not.

That said, only God will truly judge whether or not any person's profession of faith in Jesus Christ as their savior is valid -- and He will do so. Catholics so profess, and I will not judge their salvation any more than I will yours or stay silent when mine is judged.

Do you witness to Catholics or do you walk together as brethren? If you do not judge, then how do you know the difference between friend and foe or brother and lost soul?

 

[Rufus_1611]

I have always found this discussion incredibly offensive. The Head of the RCC is Jesus Christ, the Bible is part and parcel of the Faith .

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." - Revelation 18:4​

 

[Rufus_1611]

Well since this IS the section of the Forum about Christian Debate- Other Christian Denominations, One would have to EXPECT that debating about different Christian Denominations would occur

Excellent post.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Are Catholics saved? Some of them are, no doubt. But it is not because of the Roman doctrine; it is in spite of it.

Another excellent post. Amen!

 

[billwald]

"Let's remember that the idea that "Catholics are Christians" is a relatively new idea."

The idea that Protestants may be Christian is much newer. <G>

 

[tragic_pizza]

I have always found this discussion incredibly offensive. The Head of the RCC is Jesus Christ, the Bible is part and parcel of the Faith .

Absolutely correct. I haven't yet read past this comment, but whoever disagrees is ill-informed.

These kinds of "discussions" are poor witnesses, and an offense to God.

 

[BobRyan]

The RCC ADMITS that HER DOCTRINE has them WORSHIPPING a PIECE OF BREAD as though it were God -- IF in fact the heresy that man can turn bread into God -- is not true!

Pastor Larry says that anyone saved in the RCC is lost in spite of this doctrine not because of it.

The RCC says that mankind should NOT go directly to God in prayer but must go through her priests and popes -- Pastor Larry says that if someone in the RCC is saved it is INSPITE of this doctrine not because of it.

The RCC says to use images and idols in worship RATHER than obey the commandment of God forbidding it..-- Pastor Larry says that if someone in the RCC is saved it is INSPITE of this doctrine not because of it.

The RCC says that the people of God are to pray TO THE DEAD in Christ -- no matter what scripture -- (that is GOD's Word in case some are confused on that point) says against it in Isaiah 8:19....-- Pastor Larry says that if someone in the RCC is saved it is INSPITE of this doctrine not because of it.

While I am the first to say that Catholics are Christian and many are saved I also say that the one's lost were were in many cases shepherded to that lost state and held blindly in that lost state by the false doctrines of the church. I agree with Pastor Larry that the many RC members SAVED today are SAVED in SPITE of the false doctrines leading to perdition.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Absolutely correct. I haven't yet read past this comment, but whoever disagrees is ill-informed.

These kinds of "discussions" are poor witnesses, and an offense to God.

The real funny part of that is that you can go to RC message boards and see RC members themselves claiming they are "Catholic not Christian".

But here of course - that would be a "bad thing" for them to admit to...

 

[tragic_pizza]

The real funny part of that is that you can go to RC message boards and see RC members themselves claiming they are "Catholic not Christian".

But here of course - that would be a "bad thing" for them to admit to...

Evdence, please. Context is important as well.
[ad hominem removed]

 

[Rufus_1611]

Evdence, please. Context is important as well.

But yeah, just keep being a bigot.

Ms. Pizza,

Perhaps you missed the OP...

"If you are a Protestant or Baptist what cause would you have to believe that a works based religion is Christian and why is it so shocking when a brother says that a works based religion is not Christian? Perhaps you believe that Catholicism is a grace based religion, then please tell me how the sacraments are not required for salvation according to the church? Finally, if you are Protestant or Baptist and think that Catholicism is Christian, then what is it that keeps you from being Catholic?"

I'd be delighted to hear your thoughts on these questions since you are such an outspoken defender of the Catholic faith.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Ms. Pizza,

Perhaps you missed the OP...



I'd be delighted to hear your thoughts on these questions since you are such an outspoken defender of the Catholic faith.

You got the gender wrong, Ms. Rufus.

What keeps me from being Catholic is that I follow Reformed theology. There are parts of Catholicism I am not completely comfortable with, but not nearly as many as are in the Baptist faith.

 

[Rufus_1611]

What keeps me from being Catholic is that I follow Reformed theology. There are parts of Catholicism I am not completely comfortable with, but not nearly as many as are in the Baptist faith.

If you are reformed then why don't you follow the reformers?

“I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist” - Martin Luther

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." - Martin Luther

"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." - John Calvin​

If you agree that the pope is antichrist or The Antichrist then how can anti-christ lead a pro-christ religion?

If you disagree that the pope is antichrist then how is it that the fathers of the reformation were wrong and you're right?

 

[tragic_pizza]

If you are reformed then why don't you follow the reformers?

“I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist” - Martin Luther

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." - Martin Luther

"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." - John Calvin​

If you agree that the pope is antichrist or The Antichrist then how can anti-christ lead a pro-christ religion?

If you disagree that the pope is antichrist then how is it that the fathers of the reformation were wrong and you're right?

Because I take the Reformation seriously, not just the polemic.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Because I take the Reformation seriously, not just the polemic.

You don't follow the reformers because you take the reformation seriously and you don't take the controversial parts seriously?

Is the pope antichrist or the Antichrist?

 

[tragic_pizza]

You don't follow the reformers because you take the reformation seriously and you don't take the controversial parts seriously?

Is the pope antichrist or the Antichrist?

Niether, as far as I know.

You are, I see, unfamiliar with the Calvin's motto: "Reformed and ever reforming." Thus just because Calvin said something five hundred years ago doesn't mean the Reformed tradition maintains that statement.

Rufus, is it OK by God to hate people?

 

[webdog]

Absolutely correct. I haven't yet read past this comment, but whoever disagrees is ill-informed.

These kinds of "discussions" are poor witnesses, and an offense to God.

The pope is called the "vicar of Christ" is he not? That means "substitute for Christ", hardly making Christ the head of the RCC.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

If you are reformed then why don't you follow the reformers?

“I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist” - Martin Luther

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." - Martin Luther

"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." - John Calvin
​

If you agree that the pope is antichrist or The Antichrist then how can anti-christ lead a pro-christ religion?

If you disagree that the pope is antichrist then how is it that the fathers of the reformation were wrong and you're right?

Of course, reformed theology is much broader than agreeing with quote from Calvin and Luther. But thanks for trying.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Niether, as far as I know.

You are, I see, unfamiliar with the Calvin's motto: "Reformed and ever reforming." Thus just because Calvin said something five hundred years ago doesn't mean the Reformed tradition maintains that statement.

It would sound like you are reforming your way right back to the whore the reformers left.

Rufus, is it OK by God to hate people?

By God it is.

"And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness." - Malachi 1:3​

What does your question have to do with our topic?

 

[tragic_pizza]

By God it is.

"And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness." - Malachi 1:3​

What does your question have to do with our topic?

It's OK for God to hate, yes, but is it OK with God for you to spew so much hatred at Catholic people?