Catholic Taliban?

[DHK]

A Catholic Taliban rules the Philippines?

Mitch Kowalski

September 30, 2010 – 11:16 am
The Republic of the Philippines is well known for its inability to handle hostage situations, corruption in government and catastrophic poverty. Now, a new, disturbing face of the Filipino nation has emerged.

GMA News reports that Carlos Celdran, a well-known artist/actor/tour guide in Manila has been charged, at the urging of the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines, with the crime of ”offending religious feelings.”

Celdran has been a supporter of the controversial Reproductive Health Bill, which would encourage the use of contraception and the spreading of sex education in this staunchly Catholic country. The country’s Catholic Church, which still wields a high degree of influence among Filipino politicians, has come out strongly against the Bill.

Yesterday, as an act of civil disobedience, Celdran, dressed as Filipino hero Jose Rizal, stood on the altar of Manila Cathedral during Mass holding a sign that read “Damaso” – the villainous priest in Jose Rizal’s novel, “Noli Me Tangere.” Manila’s mayor, Alfredo Lim – who has been implicated as being one of those behind the Hong Kong hostage fiasco – was present at Mass and ordered Celdran forcibly removed and held in jail until the Catholic Bishops decided on charges.

Can you say Catholic Taliban?
When do we send in the troops to free Filipinos from such religious tyranny?

Disclosure Note: I have known Carlos Celdran for about four years through my many trips to the Philippines.
http://business.financialpost.com/2010/09/30/a-catholic-taliban-rules-the-philippines/

Who would have ever thought?

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[Alive in Christ]

Nothing...NOTHING...could ever come down the pike that would surprise me regarding the Catholic Church.

*Church sponsered Goddess worship

*The inquisitions

*Shuffling child molesters from parish to parish, for who knows how many decades.

*Condemning the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and replacing it with a false one.


Etc, etc, etc, through the centuries. :tear:

 

[targus]

I'm confused - what is it that the Catholic Church is doing wrong here?

A protestor disrupts a Catholic service...

and the police arrest him...

and the Catholic Church wants him to be charged for it...

and somehow that makes the Catholic Church the Taliban?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I'm confused - what is it that the Catholic Church is doing wrong here?

A protestor disrupts a Catholic service...

and the police arrest him...

and the Catholic Church wants him to charged for it...

and somehow that makes the Catholic Church the Taliban?

I have to say that I agree with this perception.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

A Catholic Taliban rules the Philippines?


Who would have ever thought?

[URL="http://business.financialpost.com/2010/09/30/a-catholic-taliban-rules-the-philippines/"]
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Yes. And whats really cool about the article is it shows how the Catholics, just like the Taliban had women stoned to death for the accusation of adultery, made them dress up in burkahs, denied them an education, built terrorist training camps in remote regions of the Philippines where future terrorist will continue the terror spread accross the world by Catholic priest flying into buildings and killing 3,000 plus Americans. I love the part of the article where the State sponsored Catholic Church took an ancient Budhist statue and temple destroying it forever. Or how the Catholic populace grows opium popies to fund the Catholic War on the West. Or how rabid Catholics disaprear to Japan only to instigate that population to hate America and recruit suicide bombers. I mean there are sooooooo many similarities between the Taliban and the Catholics. I'm mean its not a matter of the Majority voted government decided to quiet a discenter who is attempting to shock the country to favor immoral sexual behavior. I mean its not like they just stuck him in jail for a few days. I wonder if they decapitated him like the Taliban does on a regular basis.

 

[DHK]

I have to say that I agree with this perception.

There should be some degree of separation between church and state:

The country’s Catholic Church, which still wields a high degree of influence among Filipino politicians, has come out strongly against the Bill.

Perhaps what he did was wrong--the disruption of a service (mass).
If you had a J.W. disrupt your service would you kindly show him the door, or would you charge him and have him spend 3 to 4 days in jail, to put on his resume?
Mind you he wasn't a religious fanatic. He was an actor, making a political point during the time of an election--an election where the Catholic Bishops wield much political power.

 

[targus]

There should be some degree of church and state:

Perhaps what he did was wrong--the disruption of a service (mass).
If you had a J.W. disrupt your service would you kindly show him the door, or would you charge him and have him spend 3 to 4 days in jail, to put on his resume?
Mind you he wasn't a religious fanatic. He was an actor, making a political point during the time of an election--an election where the Catholic Bishops wield much political power.

And what he did was apparently - and should be - against the law.

That you would not choose to charge such a bad actor (pun intended) does not take away someone else's right to do so.

So how exactly does this make the Catholics like the Taliban?

 

[DHK]

And what he did was apparently - and should be - against the law.

That you would not choose to charge such a bad actor (pun intended) does not take away someone else's right to do so.

So how exactly does this make the Catholics like the Taliban?

He disrupted a service, but who said it is against the law?
Does the Catholic Church have to make up laws to persecute those they disagree with, and desire to force their religion upon? The Taliban force the women to wear the burkah among other things.
The Catholic Church forces the population not to use contraception. It was a protest against this ridiculous stand that they want to put into law. Read the article. Here is another:

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/202328/tour-guide-carlos-celdran-detained-for-protesting-inside-church

 

[targus]

He disrupted a service, but who said it is against the law?

The penal code says it is.

From your linked article - ...for violation of Article 133 of the Revised Penal Code, which prohibits "offending religious feelings."

Does the Catholic Church have to make up laws to persecute those they disagree with, and desire to force their religion upon?

In this case it seems to be only you that making things up.

The Taliban force the women to wear the burkah among other things. The Catholic Church forces the population not to use contraception.

How exactly does the Catholic Church "force the population not to use contraception"?

Is it anything like the way that your church and mine "force people not to commit adultry" or something along those lines?

No one is forcing anyone to be Catholic - so if someone chooses not to believe as the Catholic Church believes they are free to do as they choose.

Would you favor laws limiting abortion?

If so - how would you be any different that Catholics?

It was a protest against this ridiculous stand that they want to put into law.

And Catholics have no right to engage in politics?

Read the article. Here is another:

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/202328/tour-guide-carlos-celdran-detained-for-protesting-inside-church

I did read it.

Perhaps if you had read it with a little more care you wouldn't have egg on your face right now.

 

[DHK]

The penal code says it is.

From your linked article - ...for violation of Article 133 of the Revised Penal Code, which prohibits "offending religious feelings."

The gospel offends religious feelings. I suppose we all should stop preaching the gospel.
BTW, I know of missionaries who have gone into mosques where Muslims are praying and have witnessed to those who are standing by (still in the mosque) of the gospel of Christ--this taking place in an Islamic Republic. Do we fear the religion, offend their feelings, to tell them the truth.

Acts 4:19-20 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

The law is bogus, put in place by the "Catholic Taliban."

In this case it seems to be only you that making things up.

How exactly does the Catholic Church "force the population not to use contraception"?

What are these Catholic Bishops trying to do?
From the article:

Celdran is also a vocal advocate of the Reproductive Health Bill. He has used his blog, Facebook account, and Twitter account to criticize the Catholic church for its stance against artificial contraceptives and sex education.

They are trying to force this bill upon the people. Why should the people be forced to used contraceptives and take the exact same stance that the RCC does. Are they all Catholics? This is Taliban mentality.

Is it anything like the way that your church and mine "force people not to commit adultry" or something along those lines?

Forcing one to use contraceptives is ethically and morally wrong.
Forcing one to adopt THEIR religious views on any one topic is squelching freedom of religion. There is no soul liberty. It is Taliban mentality.

No one is forcing anyone to be Catholic - so if someone chooses not to believe as the Catholic Church believes they are free to do as they choose.

Not if these laws are passed.

Would you favor laws limiting abortion?

non sequitor.

If so - how would you be any different that Catholics?

I don't favor murder. What has that got to do with the situation? Stay on topic.

And Catholics have no right to engage in politics?

If Obama were a Muslim in the U.S., as your president would he have the right to impose Sharia law as president? It is the degree of power that they already have that is spoken of.

 

[targus]

The gospel offends religious feelings. I suppose we all should stop preaching the gospel.
BTW, I know of missionaries who have gone into mosques where Muslims are praying and have witnessed to those who are standing by (still in the mosque) of the gospel of Christ--this taking place in an Islamic Republic. Do we fear the religion, offend their feelings, to tell them the truth.

Acts 4:19-20 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

The law is bogus, put in place by the "Catholic Taliban."

And you know that this law was written and inserted into the penal code by the Catholics because...?

What are these Catholic Bishops trying to do?
From the article:

They are trying to force this bill upon the people.

Force the bill upon the people?

How by campaigning for voters to vote a certain way?

Isn't it still up to the voters?

Your hatred of Catholics blinds you.

Why should the people be forced to used contraceptives and take the exact same stance that the RCC does. Are they all Catholics? This is Taliban mentality.

And you really need to start reading with more care and engaging your mind instead of your emotions.

The Catholic Church is against contraceptives.

The Catholic Church is not trying to force anyone to use contraceptives.

As I said - and can not say enough - your hatred of Catholics blinds you.

Forcing one to use contraceptives is ethically and morally wrong.
Forcing one to adopt THEIR religious views on any one topic is squelching freedom of religion. There is no soul liberty. It is Taliban mentality.

See above.

I don't favor murder. What has that got to do with the situation? Stay on topic.

The point is that you don't object to laws which conform to your personal religious beliefs - just laws that conform to Catholic beliefs.

If the majority of the local population vote one way or another concerning a particular law - what business is it of yours?

If Obama were a Muslim in the U.S., as your president would he have the right to impose Sharia law as president? It is the degree of power that they already have that is spoken of.

Is that what is happening?

Are the Catholic Bishops imposing their own laws?

Or are they exercising their rights of political express concerning a proposed law?

Why do you wish to deny them their right of expression while exercising your own?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The gospel offends religious feelings. I suppose we all should stop preaching the gospel.
BTW, I know of missionaries who have gone into mosques where Muslims are praying and have witnessed to those who are standing by (still in the mosque) of the gospel of Christ--this taking place in an Islamic Republic. Do we fear the religion, offend their feelings, to tell them the truth

You are right the gospel does offend people. However, I've lived in an Islamic country and I am supprised to hear what you are saying. Visiting a mosque there is the uprised area before you get into the building there before you step up you have to take off your shoes and go through a ritual washing. I did niether of these and almost started a riot. I can't imagaine a Christian going into a mosque and actually sharing the gospel. I'm not saying it can't happen but it seems very unlikely.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I can't imagaine a Christian going into a mosque and actually sharing the gospel. I'm not saying it can't happen but it seems very unlikely.

I know where I was, I never saw it. Many missionaries moved around carefully, or at lease where I was. No cross on your clothes and no Bible in your hand where others could see it.

 

[DHK]

I know where I was, I never saw it. Many missionaries moved around carefully, or at lease where I was. No cross on your clothes and no Bible in your hand where others could see it.

I note your concern. I wouldn't do it either and advised the same individual not to practice it. He was with YWAM (Youth With a Mission). Of course he didn't carry a Bible, and only said a few things in a quiet whisper. But I agree it was unwise to do so. The point was that it was not against the law. He was bold. He was bold enough to face the consequences, to suffer for sharing the gospel if that would have been the consequence. There is no written law against it.

 

[DHK]

Force the bill upon the people?

How by campaigning for voters to vote a certain way?

Isn't it still up to the voters?

Your hatred of Catholics blinds you.

1. I don't hate Catholics. Stop the false accusations. I hate their doctrine which sends people to hell.

2. It is your ethnocentrism which blinds you.
Because you are an American every thing, everywhere is just like America.
Wrong! The Philippians is a different country with a different government, and a different culture. Get used to it. Study about it.

As has been noted, it is not always up to voters, the Bishops themselves wield political power over the people. That is not pure democracy. It is Catholic Taliban. Do what I say or else. Catholicism is a religion of fear. Thus the cry Celdron for the Catholics to stay out of politics. It is not a plea for them not to vote or even offer opinion. It is a plea for them not to wield threatening political control; not to act like "Catholic Taliban."

 

[DHK]

Is that what is happening?

Are the Catholic Bishops imposing their own laws?

Or are they exercising their rights of political express concerning a proposed law?

Why do you wish to deny them their right of expression while exercising your own?

Let's see if you can understand some of what is happening:

The retired archbishop, who heads a nationwide crusade against gambling and jueteng, had testified before the Senate investigation on the illegal numbers game in September.

He said some personalities connected to the Aquino administration, including Interior Undersecretary Rico Puno and former Philippine National Police chief Jesus Verzosa, had allegedly received payoffs from jueteng. Puno and Verzosa have both denied the allegations.

Cruz said he is now waiting to be notified when he will testify before a similar investigation in the House of Representatives.

Through their filthy lucre the Catholic Bishops control their political pawns in the government. They are paid off to do the RCC bidding. This is blatant corruption. It is how the RCC gets their way in a corrupt society for which the RCC is to blame. Whether or not you agree with said policy is irrelevant. This is not how democracy works. This is how Talibanization works. It is the Catholic Taliban at work here, not democracy.

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/202380/bishop-after-lying-low-jueteng-resumes-in-provinces

 

[targus]

Let's see if you can understand some of what is happening:

Through their filthy lucre the Catholic Bishops control their political pawns in the government. They are paid off to do the RCC bidding. This is blatant corruption. It is how the RCC gets their way in a corrupt society for which the RCC is to blame. Whether or not you agree with said policy is irrelevant. This is not how democracy works. This is how Talibanization works. It is the Catholic Taliban at work here, not democracy.

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/202380/bishop-after-lying-low-jueteng-resumes-in-provinces

What your little article fails to say is that the Catholic Bishops have anything to do with jueteng.

It merely says that a Catholic Bishop is giving testimony against the gambling.

Or do you also object to the Catholic Church there wanting the illegal gambling to stop?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I love the part of the article that covered the catholic bishops buring a woman up to her head and then stoning her for running away before she could be married forceably to a man 20 years her senior. Or the part where Jesuits dressed in black screamed out Allahu Akbar! when they set up a road side bomb blowing up United Nations Charity trucks drove by. Or when the Franciscan nuns captured a Jewish american Journalist and cut his head off and streamed it on the web.

I mean go figure if it was as simple as a man who broke the law being arrested by the local authorities that would be nothing but this! Yep. Just like the Taliban.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

The Catholic Church killed millions of Christians during the inquisition. Any person who spoke out against any Catholic doctrine was tortured or killed. In the poorest of countries, the people's houses lacked the basic necessities of life while the Catholic churches were full of golden statues. It has been this way for centuries. If it were possible, they would have eradicated Christianity long ago. The Roman Catholic Church is no more a Christian institution than Islam.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The Catholic Church killed millions of Christians during the inquisition. Any person who spoke out against any Catholic doctrine was tortured or killed. In the poorest of countries, the people's houses lacked the basic necessities of life while the Catholic churches were full of golden statues. It has been this way for centuries. If it were possible, they would have eradicated Christianity long ago. The Roman Catholic Church is no more a Christian institution than Islam.

That actually is a misconseption. Civil authorities killed thousands of people (I question millions in any given year because it would have erased the entire populace of europe. Considering the plague swept through europe killing half the citizens off.) based on the findings of the inquisition. Kings were Catholic thus laws favored the catholic position. Citizens who disagreed with the catholic faith also went agianst the King thus they were judged treasonous and were civily executed. However, Protestants aren't cleared from this either all you have to do is read Irish history during Oliver Cromwell's reign as Lord Protector. to the extent that

"The curse of Cromwell on you" became an Irish oath.