Catholic tradition, not the Bible, teaches a change to Sundaykeeping.

[Walpole]

The Apostle themselves changed the day of worship, not Rome, as there were no Popes nor bishops as Rome sees them until much later on!

Do you have a verse from Scripture where the Apostles explicitly changed the day of worship? Something like, "It seems good to us to worship now on Sunday."

Otherwise, you are worshiping on Sunday because of...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...TRADITION.

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you have a verse from Scripture where the Apostles explicitly changed the day of worship? Something like, "It seems good to us to worship now on Sunday."

Otherwise, you are worshiping on Sunday because of...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...TRADITION.

They gathered on the first day of the week to study, pray, worship and take communion, correct?

 

[Walpole]

They gathered on the first day of the week to study, pray, worship and take communion, correct?

They also gathered in synagogues on the Sabbath. We know this because Paul finds Christians in the synagogue. For example...

---> Acts 9:2
---> Acts 22:19
---> Acts 26:11

Let's not forget, Christianity was born from Judaism. Now, do you or do you not have a verse which states the Apostles explicitly changed the day of worship to Sunday? If not, just admit it and try to defend your tradition apart from Scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

They also gathered in synagogues on the Sabbath. We know this because Paul finds Christians in the synagogue. For example...

---> Acts 9:2
---> Acts 22:19
---> Acts 26:11

Let's not forget, Christianity was born from Judaism. Now, do you or do you not have a verse which states the Apostles explicitly changed the day of worship to Sunday? If not, just admit it and try to defend your tradition apart from Scripture.

paul and the other Apostles went there to speak to jews to give them the good news of messiah Jesus, but afyer Judaism kicked them out for teaching blasphemy of the risen Lord Jesus, all of them gathered on the Lords day, Sunday, for :church service"

 

[Walpole]

paul and the other Apostles went there to speak to jews to give them the good news of messiah Jesus, but afyer Judaism kicked them out for teaching blasphemy of the risen Lord Jesus, all of them gathered on the Lords day, Sunday, for :church service"

Do you or do you not have a verse from Scripture which explicitly states what you previously asserted, that the Apostles themselves changed the day of worship? An example would be a verse such as when the Apostles issued the Church's first dogma in Acts 16:4. I'm looking for one where they issued a similar decree officially changing the day of worship to Sunday.

If you cannot provide such a verse, just admit it and try to defend your tradition apart from Scripture.

 

[Salty]

Do you or do you not have a verse from Scripture which explicitly states what you previously asserted, that the Apostles themselves changed the day of worship? An example would be a verse such as when the Apostles issued the Church's first dogma in Acts 16:4. I'm looking for one where they issued a similar decree officially changing the day of worship to Sunday.

If you cannot provide such a verse, just admit it and try to defend your tradition apart from Scripture.

Do you have a verse from Scripture that explicitly states that Peter was a Pope! (and Mat 16:18 - is not the answer -)

Now, as stated before - they came together on Sunday to worship and to bring their offerings.
Why Sunday - the day each week that we are celebrating the Resurrection.
So is there a verse that says we must have Sunday Service - no - but it is plain that is the day we should worship.
and it has noting to do with the RCC!

 

[Walpole]

Do you have a verse from Scripture that explicitly states that Peter was a Pope! (and Mat 16:18 - is not the answer -)

Matthew 10:2 ---> Peter is explicitly called the protos.

He was "pope" before the first word of the New Testament was put to papyrus; for the office predates the Scriptures.

Now, as stated before - they came together on Sunday to worship and to bring their offerings.
Why Sunday - the day each week that we are celebrating the Resurrection.
So is there a verse that says we must have Sunday Service - no - but it is plain that is the day we should worship.
and it has noting to do with the RCC!

Thank you for acknowledging there is no Scripture stating what the previous poster asserted: that the Apostles explicitly changed the day of worship to Sunday.

It is therefore a...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...

...TRADITION!

 

[utilyan]

"Catholic tradition, not the Bible, teaches a change to Sundaykeeping."

The bible is a Catholic Tradition.

John 10
17“For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

2 Corinthians 6

1And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain—

2for He says,
“AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU,
AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.”
Behold, now is “THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,” behold, now is “THE DAY OF SALVATION”—

3giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited, 4but in everything commending ourselves as servants of God, in much endurance, in afflictions, in hardships, in distresses, 5in beatings, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in sleeplessness, in hunger, 6in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in genuine love, 7in the word of truth, in the power of God; by the weapons of righteousness for the right hand and the left, 8by glory and dishonor, by evil report and good report; regarded as deceivers and yet true; 9as unknown yet well-known, as dying yet behold, we live; as punished yet not put to death, 10as sorrowful yet always rejoicing, as poor yet making many rich, as having nothing yet possessing all things.


Jesus CHOSE the acceptable TIME, the day of salvation when he would rise in the ultimate worship of God.

If the rule is YOU CAN'T WORSHIP ON SUNDAY. Well then Jesus BROKE THE ABSOLUTE HECK out of that rule. He should have waited a week.

 

[Adonia]

The Apostle themselves changed the day of worship, not Rome, as there were no Popes nor bishops as Rome sees them until much later on!

But you looked to the ECF's to show the correctness of Sunday worship, those men who were indeed ordained Bishops of the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church. My only point is if you accept their imprimatur here, you should be accepting the other things they said, taught, and believed.

 

[Salty]

Matthew 10:2 ---> Peter is explicitly called the protos.

He was "pope" before the first word of the New Testament was put to papyrus; for the office predates the Scriptures.

Matt 10:2 "Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: the first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee and John his brother"

Mat 10:2 does NOT say "protos" for Peter - or any other apostle
In fact, the word "protos" is not even in the New Testament.-

Good try - Your Next example - well that will be incorrect as well.

Thank you for acknowledging there is no Scripture stating what the previous poster asserted: that the Apostles explicitly changed the day of worship to Sunday.

It is therefore a...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...

...TRADITION!

As I stated before - the Apostles DID change the day of worship in Scripture (as stated before) did they command it - no - but by practice, they did so. And they did it long before the RCC came to being - thus RCC tradition has nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Adonia]

the Apostles DID change the day of worship in Scripture (as stated before) did they command it - no - but by practice, they did so

They did it by practice as you say, it became the "tradition" of the new Christian Church that everyone then followed. Maybe there were other things that Christians did by "practice" or "tradition", things that were not specifically laid out in the Holy Scriptures. Mmmmmm, I wonder what they could be?

 

[Walpole]

Matt 10:2 "Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: the first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee and John his brother"

Mat 10:2 does NOT say "protos" for Peter - or any other apostle
In fact, the word "protos" is not even in the New Testament.-

Good try - Your Next example - well that will be incorrect as well.

FYI, when you see blue text in a post, it indicates it is a hyperlink, which means you can move your cursor over it, click on it, and it will take you to another site, document or source.

Hyperlink ---> Hyperlink - Wikipedia


My post contained two such hyperlinks...

Matthew 10:2 ---> Peter is explicitly called the protos.

Had you clicked on the first hyperlink for Matthew 10:2, it takes you to the actual verse. The second hyperlink, on the word "protos", takes you to Strong's Greek Lexicon, which defines the word St. Matthew uses in verse two to describe Peter. It means first in place / rank / influence / honor / chief / principal

Protos ---> G4413 - protos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)


The word protos is clearly found in the New Testament and amongst the Apostles, the word is only used to describe St. Peter. You are thus refuted.

Once again, St. Peter was "pope" before the first word of the New Testament was put to papyrus; for the office predates the Scriptures.

As I stated before - the Apostles DID change the day of worship in Scripture (as stated before) did they command it - no - but by practice, they did so. And they did it long before the RCC came to being - thus RCC tradition has nothing to do with it.

Ok, let's try this again: WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DID THE APOSTLES OFFICIALLY CHANGE THE DAY OF WORSHIP TO SUNDAY?

Provide the verse(s) here ---> ____________________

 

[utilyan]

I would argue a change was never made. Plenty of Jewish Christians kept sabbath and were circumcised too.

The difference now that the Sabbath is not only kept, but fully completed, fulfilled and revealed in Jesus Christ.

Also the passion the death on the cross, that day is still SO holy so universal that on a sabbath alone isn't enough.

The Eucharist covers all those bases.

 

[timtofly]

Matthew 10:2 ---> Peter is explicitly called the protos.

He was "pope" before the first word of the New Testament was put to papyrus; for the office predates the Scriptures.



Thank you for acknowledging there is no Scripture stating what the previous poster asserted: that the Apostles explicitly changed the day of worship to Sunday.

It is therefore a...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...

...TRADITION!

No, the tradition was Roman before Christ was born. The 8 day week. Sunday to Sunday. The 6 days in the middle people worked. The early church took this early break of Sundays to do their gatherings on. After the Romans sacked and destroyed everything in Jerusalem in 70 AD, only Judaism cared about a Hebrew tradition of keeping the Sabbath holy.

Why call a religion a thing even before it started? Religion happens when government gets involved and culture becomes religious at the dictates of the State. Jesus warned his disciples to keep them separate. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. Render unto God the things that are God's.

 

[timtofly]

FYI, when you see blue text in a post, it indicates it is a hyperlink, which means you can move your cursor over it, click on it, and it will take you to another site, document or source.

Hyperlink ---> Hyperlink - Wikipedia


My post contained two such hyperlinks...

Matthew 10:2 ---> Peter is explicitly called the protos.

Had you clicked on the first hyperlink for Matthew 10:2, it takes you to the actual verse. The second hyperlink, on the word "protos", takes you to Strong's Greek Lexicon, which defines the word St. Matthew uses in verse two to describe Peter. It means first in place / rank / influence / honor / chief / principal

Protos ---> G4413 - protos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)


The word protos is clearly found in the New Testament and amongst the Apostles, the word is only used to describe St. Peter. You are thus refuted.

Once again, St. Peter was "pope" before the first word of the New Testament was put to papyrus; for the office predates the Scriptures.




Ok, let's try this again: WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DID THE APOSTLES OFFICIALLY CHANGE THE DAY OF WORSHIP TO SUNDAY?

Provide the verse(s) here ---> ____________________

Pope means father.
Protos means first.

How does that mean anything?

Peter was charismatic and sometimes the first to speak out like a leader. Or the first to "put his foot in his mouth". Do something before thinking. He needed some discipline to be a good discple.

Something a lot of popes lacked.

Jesus instructed Peter to be a shepherd, not a Padre.

 

[Walpole]

I would argue a change was never made. Plenty of Jewish Christians kept sabbath and were circumcised too.

The difference now that the Sabbath is not only kept, but fully completed, fulfilled and revealed in Jesus Christ.

Also the passion the death on the cross, that day is still SO holy so universal that on a sabbath alone isn't enough.

The Eucharist covers all those bases.

Bingo!

 

[Walpole]

No, the tradition was Roman before Christ was born. The 8 day week. Sunday to Sunday. The 6 days in the middle people worked. The early church took this early break of Sundays to do their gatherings on. After the Romans sacked and destroyed everything in Jerusalem in 70 AD, only Judaism cared about a Hebrew tradition of keeping the Sabbath holy.

Why call a religion a thing even before it started? Religion happens when government gets involved and culture becomes religious at the dictates of the State. Jesus warned his disciples to keep them separate. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. Render unto God the things that are God's.

Great, now just provide the verse(s) where the Apostles officially changed the day of worship to Sunday. This has yet to be provided by those asserting it to be true.

 

[Walpole]

Pope means father.
Protos means first.

How does that mean anything?

Peter was charismatic and sometimes the first to speak out like a leader. Or the first to "put his foot in his mouth". Do something before thinking. He needed some discipline to be a good discple.

Something a lot of popes lacked.

Jesus instructed Peter to be a shepherd, not a Padre.

Exactly. Pope means father and surely you can find the word father in the Bible? For example, St. Paul says he is a father to the faithful at Corinth...

1 Cor 4:15 ---> For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."

Peter is uniquely called the protos. No other is described as such.

 

[Yeshua1]

They did it by practice as you say, it became the "tradition" of the new Christian Church that everyone then followed. Maybe there were other things that Christians did by "practice" or "tradition", things that were not specifically laid out in the Holy Scriptures. Mmmmmm, I wonder what they could be?

There was no papacy established by God, no Eucharist, no infant baptismal regeneration!

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly. Pope means father and surely you can find the word father in the Bible? For example, St. Paul says he is a father to the faithful at Corinth...

1 Cor 4:15 ---> For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."

Peter is uniquely called the protos. No other is described as such.

And yet peter ONLY claimed to be the Apostle to the jews, and acknowledged paul as one of the gentiles, so 2 Popes?