Catholic tradition, not the Bible, teaches a change to Sundaykeeping.

[Adonia]

Yes, I am! I was challenged to study by another former Baptist on this board (Thinkingstuff) and eventually attended RCIA and over time realized the Early Church looked NOTHING like Baptist churches of today.

Wow! If my memory serves me right it was "Dr. Walter" back then. Oh how I wanted to respond to you, but BB would not let me join at that time. Yes, I have read your testimony and sometimes we just don't know where we will end up. As you say, it was the early Christian church and especially the ECF' s which certainly had a different theology than our Baptist friends of today.

 

[Walpole]

Yes, I am! I was challenged to study by another former Baptist on this board (Thinkingstuff) and eventually attended RCIA and over time realized the Early Church looked NOTHING like Baptist churches of today.

Does Thinkingstuff still post here?

I was searching some old threads and came across one entitled, "Could Mary have said No?" and I was impressed with his posts. (He was exactly right in that thread.)

God bless.

 

[Walpole]

Yes, I am! I was challenged to study by another former Baptist on this board (Thinkingstuff) and eventually attended RCIA and over time realized the Early Church looked NOTHING like Baptist churches of today.

Like I have written previously...

Other than believing in baptismal regeneration, the Eucharist as the actual body and blood of Christ, the efficacy of the Sacraments, the ordained episcopate, priesthood and diaconate, the practice of celibacy and clerical continence, having a liturgy focused on the Eucharistic sacrifice, Apostolic succession as necessary to safeguard the faith and valid Sacraments, the authority of the Church and the bishop of Rome as the authority over the Church universal, I suppose you could say the early Church looked like and believed as Baptist churches of today do.

 

[Yeshua1]

I was wondering, are you the hard core Baptist also named Walter that I read on this board years ago?

Before he made the switch for the worse?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, I am! I was challenged to study by another former Baptist on this board (Thinkingstuff) and eventually attended RCIA and over time realized the Early Church looked NOeir theologyTHING like Baptist churches of today.

Except that their theology was baptist, no where near that of Church of Rome! No papacy, no mary worship, no mass, no extra biblical books!

 

[Yeshua1]

Like I have written previously...

Other than believing in baptismal regeneration, the Eucharist as the actual body and blood of Christ, the efficacy of the Sacraments, the ordained episcopate, priesthood and diaconate, the practice of celibacy and clerical continence, having a liturgy focused on the Eucharistic sacrifice, Apostolic succession as necessary to safeguard the faith and valid Sacraments, the authority of the Church and the bishop of Rome as the authority over the Church universal, I suppose you could say the early Church looked like and believed as Baptist churches of today do.

You do know that the Catholic as in Universal Church in Acts practiced none of those things, and neither did Christianity until Roman Cathlic Papacy arrive 600 years later, and up until then pretty much was all eastern church, nott Rome?

 

[Hobie]

Before he made the switch for the worse?

Why would it be 'worse', most Baptist tend to hold to common doctrinal beliefs.

 

[Yeshua1]

Why would it be 'worse', most Baptist tend to hold to common doctrinal beliefs.

Most hold to the true Gospel!

 

[Hobie]

You do know that the Catholic as in Universal Church in Acts practiced none of those things, and neither did Christianity until Roman Cathlic Papacy arrive 600 years later, and up until then pretty much was all eastern church, nott Rome?

Very true..

 

[Yeshua1]

Very true..

The first Christians were Jews, and still kept meeting in Temple on Sabbath, but when Judaism kicked them out, early on, Apostles changed to meeting on Lords day, Sunday!

 

[Hobie]

The first Christians were Jews, and still kept meeting in Temple on Sabbath, but when Judaism kicked them out, early on, Apostles changed to meeting on Lords day, Sunday!

You need to wake up and see who it was that changed the Sabbath, it was the apostate church and then it crowned its bishop to the level of Caesar. Look in history, and you will find the papal title Pontifex Maximus can be traced back to Babylon. The Babylon Kings, served as both king and priest of the pagan Babylonian Mystery religion, As priests, they bore the title "Pontifex Maximus" or "Supreme Pontiff," meaning "supreme pathfinder" or "bridge maker," which basically claims they were "the path or connection between this life and the next"

When Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, the Babylonian pagan religion was maintained, but after a disagreement that led to a revolt of the priesthood, the priests of Babylon were driven out of Medo-Persia, and they set themselves up at Pergamum, taking with them their titles and vestures. They pretty much continued their reign there as priest-kings of Babylonian paganism.

History shows how pontiff king of Pergamum Attalus III, bequeathed his title to the emperor of Rome in 133 BC and the kingdom of Pergamum merged with the Roman Empire along with what the scripture calls Satan throne and idol worship and its title "Pontifex Maximus".

Revelation 2:12-14King James Version (KJV)
12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

In the fourth century AD, Christian emperor Gratian refused the title, and in the year 431 AD, the title was taken over by Damascus, bishop of Rome. By this time, the Roman bishops had advanced in political power, and so Bishop Damasus was elected Pontifex Maximus, becoming the official pagan Babylonian priest seated on Satan's throne in Rome. As such, the bishop converted the pagan temples of Rome into Christian churches and introduced the worship of pagan Babylon with its rites and rituals and pagan sacraments. History has what is considered the "overnight" conversion of pagan Romans to Christianity, which in actuality, the Roman pagans did not convert to Christianity, but rather the bishop Damasus exercised his authority as head of' Babylonian paganism in Rome, and replaced all the Christian elders with pagan priests and continued the practice of the pagan Babylonian Mystery religion and began its spread to all areas of the old Roman Empire.

The present-day college of cardinals with the Pope at the head is identical to the college of pontiffs from Babylon and Ancient pagan Rome with the Pontifex Maximus at the head.

The keys that the Pope wears around his neck are not the keys of Peter. Rather, they date back from Babylonian times, when it was supposed that this representative of God had the power to unlock heaven or hell. All the rituals and pomp and ceremony basically that existed in ancient Babylon has now been picked up and put into practiced as Roman Catholic Christianity.

You can search history and find what happened. Here is a statement about the Pope’s position as the pagan priest who is the Pontifex Maximus:

"The Emperor is no more...but the Pontifex Maximus abides; he is now the Vicar of Christ, offering the old civilisation to the tribes of the North. He converts them to his creed, and they serve him as Father and Judge supreme" William Barry's 'The Papal Monarchy'.

Seems like the priests of Babylon continue in this new guise..

 

[Hobie]

Some try to dispute that Catholic Church incorporated pagan images into their worship and even religious practices which came all the way from Babylon but even Catholic historians admit it.

"The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church. ( An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry; Cardinal Newman p.373.)

'It has often been charged' that Catholicism is overlaid with many pagan incrustations. Catholicism is ready to accept that accusation and even to make it her boast 'the great god Pan is not really dead, he is baptized'. ( The Story of Catholicism p 37.)

"It is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans. Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those of pagan creeds. (The Externals of the Catholic Church, Her Government, Ceremonies, Festivals, Sacramentals and Devotions, by John F. Sullivan, p 156, published by P.J. Kennedy, NY, 1942).

The College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) came from the religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. Cardinal Newman in his Development of Christian Doctrine, says that they incorporated many pagan religious practices into the Church. He claims that the Church sanctified them and that made it safe to bring these practices into the Church. The Catholic Council of Trent also declared that: 'It is lawful to have images in the Church and to give honour and worship to them ... Images are put in Churches that they may be worshipped.'

 

[Yeshua1]

You need to wake up and see who it was that changed the Sabbath, it was the apostate church and then it crowned its bishop to the level of Caesar. Look in history, and you will find the papal title Pontifex Maximus can be traced back to Babylon. The Babylon Kings, served as both king and priest of the pagan Babylonian Mystery religion, As priests, they bore the title "Pontifex Maximus" or "Supreme Pontiff," meaning "supreme pathfinder" or "bridge maker," which basically claims they were "the path or connection between this life and the next"

When Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, the Babylonian pagan religion was maintained, but after a disagreement that led to a revolt of the priesthood, the priests of Babylon were driven out of Medo-Persia, and they set themselves up at Pergamum, taking with them their titles and vestures. They pretty much continued their reign there as priest-kings of Babylonian paganism.

History shows how pontiff king of Pergamum Attalus III, bequeathed his title to the emperor of Rome in 133 BC and the kingdom of Pergamum merged with the Roman Empire along with what the scripture calls Satan throne and idol worship and its title "Pontifex Maximus".

Revelation 2:12-14King James Version (KJV)
12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

In the fourth century AD, Christian emperor Gratian refused the title, and in the year 431 AD, the title was taken over by Damascus, bishop of Rome. By this time, the Roman bishops had advanced in political power, and so Bishop Damasus was elected Pontifex Maximus, becoming the official pagan Babylonian priest seated on Satan's throne in Rome. As such, the bishop converted the pagan temples of Rome into Christian churches and introduced the worship of pagan Babylon with its rites and rituals and pagan sacraments. History has what is considered the "overnight" conversion of pagan Romans to Christianity, which in actuality, the Roman pagans did not convert to Christianity, but rather the bishop Damasus exercised his authority as head of' Babylonian paganism in Rome, and replaced all the Christian elders with pagan priests and continued the practice of the pagan Babylonian Mystery religion and began its spread to all areas of the old Roman Empire.

The present-day college of cardinals with the Pope at the head is identical to the college of pontiffs from Babylon and Ancient pagan Rome with the Pontifex Maximus at the head.

The keys that the Pope wears around his neck are not the keys of Peter. Rather, they date back from Babylonian times, when it was supposed that this representative of God had the power to unlock heaven or hell. All the rituals and pomp and ceremony basically that existed in ancient Babylon has now been picked up and put into practiced as Roman Catholic Christianity.

You can search history and find what happened. Here is a statement about the Pope’s position as the pagan priest who is the Pontifex Maximus:

"The Emperor is no more...but the Pontifex Maximus abides; he is now the Vicar of Christ, offering the old civilisation to the tribes of the North. He converts them to his creed, and they serve him as Father and Judge supreme" William Barry's 'The Papal Monarchy'.

Seems like the priests of Babylon continue in this new guise..

Documents from the end of first century, and the writings of all ECF of second century show Sunday was established as new Day of Lord by Apostles themselves!

 

[Hobie]

Documents from the end of first century, and the writings of all ECF of second century show Sunday was established as new Day of Lord by Apostles themselves!

That's why we use the Bible as the standard as the inspired word of God, not documents or mans ideas or philosophy, or we can justify any 'tradition' as the church at Rome did.

 

[Adonia]

That's why we use the Bible as the standard as the inspired word of God, not documents or mans ideas or philosophy, or we can justify any 'tradition' as the church at Rome did.

You do indeed use man's ideas and philosophy, or in your case a certain woman's ideas and philosophy. Her writings are considered SDA documents by you folks, are they not? Perhaps you should stop being less than truthful with you statements.

 

[timtofly]

If all the world rested on Sunday, and Monday is the first work day. Seventh Day Adventist only work 5 days, along with the world. The command says: Exodus 20:8-9

8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work,

This version says Remember the Sabbath.
It also says, Thou shalt labor 6 days. To keep this Commandment, starting on Monday and working 6 days, one would have to Remember the Sabbath on Sunday.

The Romans used to have 8 day weeks. God’s week was Sunday to Sunday. On the Sabbath God rested. Sunday was lost on humanity, and the Egyptians had 10 day weeks. Today Monday is the first day of the week. It was not just the RCC church. Even in the Entry of Jesus on passover week, it started on a Sunday and ended on a Sunday. The Roman traditional 8 day week. And Monday through Saturday was the days to work. That Romans allowed Jews their Sabbath is not relative.

To obey the 4th Commandment one has to work 6 days, and resting on the 7th, would be Sunday, literally. Both the Jews and the church blessed the Gentiles by shortening the work week to 5 days, allowing 2 days of rest. In the last 100 years, Satan's demands of labor and economy, has forced us past even the 6 day punishment, causing us to work 7 days a week, sometimes 10 to 12 days in a row. We warn against the mark/curse of labor, while letting Satan force us to actually work more than God ever required.

Covid19 brought a drastic halt to labor. Even cleaned up tons of man made pollution, which men would never have cleaned up on their own. Work, work, work, why are we like Martha, always demanding work upon ourselves?

 

[Yeshua1]

That's why we use the Bible as the standard as the inspired word of God, not documents or mans ideas or philosophy, or we can justify any 'tradition' as the church at Rome did.

or as Ellen White did, as she wrote and stated MANY wrongs things!

 

[Adonia]

Documents from the end of first century, and the writings of all ECF of second century show Sunday was established as new Day of Lord by Apostles themselves!

I applaud you looking to the ECF's to validate Sunday worship for the Christian. Now you also need to heed their words when it comes to the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church and orthodox Christian teachings and beliefs. They are as correct on the sacraments, the Apostolic Succession, and the head Bishop of the church being based in Rome as they are on Sunday worship.

 

[Walpole]

If all the world rested on Sunday, and Monday is the first work day. Seventh Day Adventist only work 5 days, along with the world. The command says: Exodus 20:8-9

8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work,

This version says Remember the Sabbath.
It also says, Thou shalt labor 6 days. To keep this Commandment, starting on Monday and working 6 days, one would have to Remember the Sabbath on Sunday.

The Romans used to have 8 day weeks. God’s week was Sunday to Sunday. On the Sabbath God rested. Sunday was lost on humanity, and the Egyptians had 10 day weeks. Today Monday is the first day of the week. It was not just the RCC church. Even in the Entry of Jesus on passover week, it started on a Sunday and ended on a Sunday. The Roman traditional 8 day week. And Monday through Saturday was the days to work. That Romans allowed Jews their Sabbath is not relative.

To obey the 4th Commandment one has to work 6 days, and resting on the 7th, would be Sunday, literally. Both the Jews and the church blessed the Gentiles by shortening the work week to 5 days, allowing 2 days of rest. In the last 100 years, Satan's demands of labor and economy, has forced us past even the 6 day punishment, causing us to work 7 days a week, sometimes 10 to 12 days in a row. We warn against the mark/curse of labor, while letting Satan force us to actually work more than God ever required.

Covid19 brought a drastic halt to labor. Even cleaned up tons of man made pollution, which men would never have cleaned up on their own. Work, work, work, why are we like Martha, always demanding work upon ourselves?

Nice post. It reminds me of people who accuse others of making graven images if they have a statue of Jesus, Mary or the saints, all while having an image of themselves or some other likeness as their avatar, a painting of birds or a picture of their family hanging on their walls, etc. Like Exodus 20:8-9 which you cited where they conveniently leave off the laboring six days part of the command, similarly, these same folks almost always leave off the entire command with graven images...

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." (Exodus 20:4)

Or from Deuteronomy...

"And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, the likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, the likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth." (Deuteronomy 4:13-18)

 

[Yeshua1]

I applaud you looking to the ECF's to validate Sunday worship for the Christian. Now you also need to heed their words when it comes to the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church and orthodox Christian teachings and beliefs. They are as correct on the sacraments, the Apostolic Succession, and the head Bishop of the church being based in Rome as they are on Sunday worship.

The Apostle themselves changed the day of worship, not Rome, as there were no Popes nor bishops as Rome sees them until much later on!