Catholics please share how you feel….

[canadyjd]

….. about the Vatican allowing same-s:x couples to be blessed by priests?

1. Does this mean God is blessing these relationships?

2. Will this lead to the Catholic Church recognizing same s:x marriage?

3. If you opposed this in the past, will you change your mind and conform to the teaching of your Pope?

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

If I understand Catholic doctrine correctly, this is a declaration that God is blessing these relationships.

It is a clear victory for the activists and one step closer to the official recognition of same s:x marriage by the Catholic Church.

I really would like to know how Catholics feel about this decision.

peace to you

 

[MrW]

….. about the Vatican allowing same-s:x couples to be blessed by priests?

1. Does this mean God is blessing these relationships?

2. Will this lead to the Catholic Church recognizing same s:x marriage?

3. If you opposed this in the past, will you change your mind and conform to the teaching of your Pope?

peace to you

I will leave what is Catholic to the Catholics but #1, I can answer, as a student of Scripture…

NO!

 

[HatedByAll]

I am not Catholic so I will not vote or express my own personal opinion. But I will post a position paper from a Catholic Organization that in my opinion is much closer to the Biblical Position than what was published by the Vatican.

 

[canadyjd]

I will leave what is Catholic to the Catholics but #1, I can answer, as a student of Scripture…

NO!

Of course, I don’t believe God is blessing these relationships no matter what the Pope says.

However…. my question is whether Catholics believe God is blessing these relationships because the Pope says priests can bless these relationships?

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I am not Catholic so I will not vote or express my own personal opinion. But I will post a position paper from a Catholic Organization that in my opinion is much closer to the Biblical Position than what was published by the Vatican.

A very strongly worded response from one sect within Catholicism. Thanks for the info.

peace to you

 

[MrW]

Of course, I don’t believe God is blessing these relationships no matter what the Pope says.

However…. my question is whether Catholics believe God is blessing these relationships because the Pope says priests can bless these relationships?

peace to you

Probably some will, knowing how sometimes some follow blindly. Not being Catholic, I will leave that to them to answer.

 

[MrW]

I am not Catholic so I will not vote or express my own personal opinion. But I will post a position paper from a Catholic Organization that in my opinion is much closer to the Biblical Position than what was published by the Vatican.

Yet it speaks of blessing same-sex couples, whereas the letter implies it doesn’t mean that, but instead means individuals struggling with that sin. Thus, it is very weak.

I predict Catholicism will eventually begin accepting same-sex so-called marriages as valid, even though God recognizes only marriages between male and female.

 

[Walter]

….. about the Vatican allowing same-s:x couples to be blessed by priests?

1. Does this mean God is blessing these relationships?

2. Will this lead to the Catholic Church recognizing same s:x marriage?

3. If you opposed this in the past, will you change your mind and conform to the teaching of your Pope?

peace to you

What is the OFFICIAL position of the Vatican?? Sometimes it is better to go to the actual source and not spread gossip. You know what church has scandal, pedophilia, and child molestation rampant within it's church? Check out what has been exposed in the IFB leadership and the current series running on the subject!

‘Let Us Prey’ Exposes ‘Training Ground for Pedophiles’


Pope Francis says “No” to Blessing Same-Sex Unions

 

[Cathode]

What is the OFFICIAL position of the Vatican?? Sometimes it is better to go to the actual source and not spread gossip. You know what church has scandal, pedophilia, and child molestation rampant within it's church? Check out what has been exposed in the IFB leadership and the current series running on the subject!

‘Let Us Prey’ Exposes ‘Training Ground for Pedophiles’


Pope Francis says “No” to Blessing Same-Sex Unions

Interesting that people have jumped to wild prejudiced conclusions and not read the actual documents involved.

I think it’s excellent that these clarifications have been made, and the Church is actually shutting down the idea of endorsing same sex relationships.

 

[MrW]

They are shutting down the idea so poorly that everyone believes they are supporting the idea. I read the document provided, and it appears to me they do support same-sex couples, not individuals who are struggling against it.

 

[canadyjd]

What is the OFFICIAL position of the Vatican?? Sometimes it is better to go to the actual source and not spread gossip. You know what church has scandal, pedophilia, and child molestation rampant within it's church? Check out what has been exposed in the IFB leadership and the current series running on the subject!

‘Let Us Prey’ Exposes ‘Training Ground for Pedophiles’


Pope Francis says “No” to Blessing Same-Sex Unions

Start your own thread about which group coddles child molestors. Quit trying to hijack this thread.

Are you denying this pronouncement from the Pope allows priests to bless same s:x relationships? I understand it says not to call it marriage.

Did you read the statement from “Marian” group that clearly understands this will cause confusing among Catholics about whether God is blessing same s:x couples?

Do you agree with your Pope that priests can bless same s:x couples, yes or no?

peace to you

 

[Mikey]

.

.

Hi Cathode and Walter,

What was your thoughts when the Fiducia Supplicans came out, and how did others within your community react? From the internet it seemed it created alot of concern.

From my point of view Francis is clearly a liberal with sympathies with progressiveness. The the document was deliberately ambiguous to allow those like the German Bishops and the American Priest to do what they did, and the only reason the Vatican "clarified" (I would say backed off) beacuse of the backlash. Yet I saw some catholics defend the document and Francis as some sort of stalwart of conservative catholicism. With the document was neither confusing or vague but clear as snow. Which begs the question how so many apologists and Bishops refused to implement it, if it was just basic Catholic teaching of blessing individuals in sin (even though it explicitly states blessing couples).

Would you agree on this take?

 

[rsr]

Setting aside the "whataboutism" in the first link, let's move on to the second. If you looked at the second, you would readily see that it was written in 2021, before Fiducia Supplicans was published earlier this month.

First, Fiducia Supplicans does not envisage a blessing as regularizing an "irregular" marriage relationship; this applies not only to same sex couples, but also to heterosexual couples whose marriage is not recognized as licit, such as divorced people or people having sex outside of marriage.

That seems clear. But what is not clear is when such blessings may be pronounced.

If you have attended a Catholic funeral, you likely were offered the opportunity to receive a blessing if you were not Catholic, or perhaps you are Catholic who does not consider yourself in a state of grace and thus should not take communion. In such cases I do not think the priest considers himself bound to inquire as to the state of the soul of the one being blessed because blessing is not a sacrament.

Fiducia Supplicans indicates that the blessings should be impromptu and not at all liturgical. What does that mean for a blessing with a couple in an irregular sexual relationship? Can the priest bless both members individually, thus avoiding any hint of blessing the relationship? Does the priest's decision change if the couples receiving the blessing, designed to move the beneficiary to compliance with the church's teaching, have no interest in moving toward the church's teaching because they believe the teaching to be incorrect?

These matters may be clear to the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF). Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández,said “it’s proper for each local bishop to make that discernment.” That is certainly not an unusual situation; for example, bishops have the sole discretion on when the Latin Mass may be offered. I can't help thinking that such a state of affairs could lead to diocese shopping? I doubt that the German bishops will have the same discernment as Bishop Joseph Strickland, for example.

Trent Horn, the apologist who wrote the 2021 article at the second link, does not think the document settles the controversy — or ambiguity.

This document, in principle, is orthodox, because it speaks of sinners seeking “spontaneous” blessings in order to live better lives, which is not a problem. But something can be technically true and yet confuse people and lead to scandal if it is uttered without qualification.

... it is technically true that a priest can bless “gay couples,” but this is easily mistaken for a commendation of sin without the express qualification that the blessing is for each individual to grow closer to God.

So, although the document may be read as orthodox in principle, we can object to its likely interpretation and effects in practice. One big concern I have is that permission for a licit spontaneous blessing to those who genuinely seek God will quickly become permission (or possibly even an obligation under some bishops) to bless relationships of people who simply want the Church to validate their sinful desires.

Given the practical difficulty involved in the wide variety of ministers giving and individuals seeking these “spontaneous blessings,” I would not have released the document—or at I least I would have included the reminder from the 2021 DDF ruling, still in force, that God “does not and cannot bless sin.”

 

[Cathode]

Hi Cathode and Walter,

What was your thoughts when the Fiducia Supplicans came out, and how did others within your community react? From the internet it seemed it created alot of concern.

From my point of view Francis is clearly a liberal with sympathies with progressiveness. The the document was deliberately ambiguous to allow those like the German Bishops and the American Priest to do what they did, and the only reason the Vatican "clarified" (I would say backed off) beacuse of the backlash. Yet I saw some catholics defend the document and Francis as some sort of stalwart of conservative catholicism. With the document was neither confusing or vague but clear as snow. Which begs the question how so many apologists and Bishops refused to implement it, if it was just basic Catholic teaching of blessing individuals in sin (even though it explicitly states blessing couples).

Would you agree on this take?

Personally, I call down blessings on everyone, and they will bear fruit in due season as God sees fit, it is our faith, hope and love in the Lord that gives these blessings potency. Jesus can not let down those who trust in Him.
We come across extremely messed up people in street ministry including many gay people, I’m not out to condemn, they have had plenty of condemn. Condemn is easy, Condemn has been done to death for millennia, doesn’t soften hearts but only hardens them.

Blessings are exorcisms, and predisposes many things spiritually, they can soften hearts and change minds by action of Grace. It should have been implemented long ago officially as an outreach.
Not just lay people blessing and praying over people, but those with the Apostolic gifts.

There are those nursing their prejudice against the Catholic Church, that would like to call this blessing, a condoning of sin or a solemnifying of gay relationships and lifestyle.
That’s not what I see in these documents.

What I see is the Church reaching out to its utmost limit pastorally in mercy to gay people, without condoning sin, or solemnifying gay relationships and lifestyle.
It’s actually defining and setting a limit in reality.

The media and other enemies of the Church seem to be sowing the division by misinformation and not reporting the documents properly.

 

[Mikey]

Reaction and thoughts on the Fiducia Supplicans from Matt Fradd and Joe Heschmeyer

 

[MrW]

A lot of talk that means nothing.

God DOES NOT bless sin!

 

[Cathode]

A lot of talk that means nothing.

God DOES NOT bless sin!

P


Sure, but no one is advocating blessing sin, they are blessing sinners.

“The quality of mercy is not strain'd.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.“

“that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

We must call down blessings on all, we must call down the Light and Rain of Grace to give life to the dead and strength to the living.

If condemnation worked, all man’s problems would have been solved long ago.

What is this quality of Mercy, that Mercy is for the undeserving and those far away.

Is that what frightens us?

We abhor sin because it disfigures God’s image and likeness in people, the new leprosy that revolts us today is born by homosexuals.

Gay pride parades and the constant mockery thrown in our face by Satan tries to put homosexuals far beyond the reach of Salvation.
It tries to make them easy to condemn and forget, count as lost and Satan laughs victoriously in this stronghold. So what better stronghold to attack, if not that. If he suffers losses here, they will be the most bitter losses to take. These were his most sure and secure trophies for eternity, now snatched away to God.

What is truly brave, is that despite our revulsion, the mockery and provocation we see through the leprosy and approach with God’s Grace a soul created and loved by God.
Satan wants us so revolted, that we don’t approach with Jesus Love and Mercy.

I have prayed over many gay people in street ministry, there is a horrific war on for souls and it’s only through the eyes of Jesus we see the trapped and wounded soul wanting to be freed.

Jesus has freed many of them, as with alcoholics and drug addicts and many others.
Me and Nell heard this beautiful tune one time after praying over a bloke who asked God to forgive him and said he would change his life.
The tune wasn’t instruments it was beautiful voices singing, later on we reckoned it was rejoicing in heaven because of this bloke truly repenting.

This is the most meaningful, blessed and important life lived to bring the Mercy and Love of God. What other things could we occupy our time with that would give Jesus more glory and Joy.

 

[Cathode]

Self is the problem, self does everything wrong and makes things worse.

Only Jesus has the Love, Understanding and words to minister His mercy even in the darkest strongholds out there.
It might be by using your words and character but it will be Jesus Himself ministering with it. A soul recognises Jesus, like sheep recognise truth and follow.
Humanly speaking we must be brave and generous, brave to go where you would rather not be sent, and generous to keep allowing Jesus full volition to act in and through us.

It’s an adventure of Love and Trust and so many good things happen on the way. Because of Jesus we bear much fruit.

 

[Mikey]

"Cardinal Fernandez explained that the couple is blessed not the Union, which is either self-contradictory and he doesn't know it and therefore is woefully unqualified to be occupying that position in the church or it's a phrase simply designed to create confusion and as First Corinthians remind us God is is not the author of confusion but of peace.... The word couple is describing two things as one thing it's a way of taking a plurality and reducing it to a singularity what do we call that when multiple things become one thing a union that's literally what the word Union means."