Nodak, you have offered no scriptural or scientific evidence to verify your supposed discernment. My discernment tells me that you have a personal disdain for music with a particular beat. And because it personally bothers you you equate it to being nonspiritual or ungodly. I guess that is your business. Personally, I feel sorry for you and any unsuspecting Christians that you may come into contact with concerning this matter. And, I feel sorry for any music minister or church that doesn't use music that fits into your personal standards. By the way, I love the old hymns. I'm one who likes it all. A blended service is the way to go as far as I'm concerned. I love to hear classical styles, traditional hymns, Southern Gospel (as long as it isn't too twangy), blue grass, and different genres of CCM.
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sag38, have you ever in your life been to a Navajo sing? Have you ever dealt with someone involved with skinwalkers? With peyote users? Until you do, you might want to reserve your condemnation of me.
We American Christians tend to think of the world in our bland, cottonwool wrapped safety. There really is a whole 'nuther world out there.
So I feel sorry for you in return, that you can't handle the thought that music does have more to it than entertainment value.
And for the record, I too, enjoy a wide variety of music. There is nothing wrong with with not accepting every individual piece of music. God gave us discerners for a reason.
Someone on one of these threads mentioned being upset with folks that go to a southern gospel concert and hoot and shout and clap and stomp and raise hands but won't do it in church.
When I go to a concert I go to be entertained and am in the presence of entertainers. Part of their "pay" is audience reaction, and if they entertain me well I show my appreciation with applause, etc.
But when I go into church, I go into the presence of Almighty God, not to be entertained but to worship.
You better believe my behavior is going to be different.
We American Christians tend to think of the world in our bland, cottonwool wrapped safety. There really is a whole 'nuther world out there.
So I feel sorry for you in return, that you can't handle the thought that music does have more to it than entertainment value.
And for the record, I too, enjoy a wide variety of music. There is nothing wrong with with not accepting every individual piece of music. God gave us discerners for a reason.
Someone on one of these threads mentioned being upset with folks that go to a southern gospel concert and hoot and shout and clap and stomp and raise hands but won't do it in church.
When I go to a concert I go to be entertained and am in the presence of entertainers. Part of their "pay" is audience reaction, and if they entertain me well I show my appreciation with applause, etc.
But when I go into church, I go into the presence of Almighty God, not to be entertained but to worship.
You better believe my behavior is going to be different.
annsi, I am glad you've listened to a lot of music and never been led into evil behavior.
Not everybody can say that. Just ask the "victims" of my brother's honkytonk dance band.
If music has so little influence on us, we wouldn't have the "worship wars".
Neither side would have that much concern what kind of music was being used.
Not everybody can say that. Just ask the "victims" of my brother's honkytonk dance band.
If music has so little influence on us, we wouldn't have the "worship wars".
Neither side would have that much concern what kind of music was being used.
You cannot rightfully claim that "just because there is conflict, that proves your view is wrong."
The same reasoning could have (incorrectly) been used to justify segregating worship services. In fact, some churches did that years ago in my neck of the woods.
My overriding concern? That God is honored.
But that's not your argument. Your agument is that CCM must be categorically avoided by churches as a whole. There's nothing objective that one can site for this position.
Johnv, I never said that ccm must be categorically avoided by all churches.
I said SOME ccm and SOME tcm should be avoided.
Not all of either kind.
But so it goes--some folks think if you reject SOME of any form you must reject all. I don't.
I do find (and this is JUST personal experience based ONLY on my little town) that to say you PERSONALLY do not care for ccm worship services is to be branded a heretic and a legallist who does not care for evangelism. Of course, if you state you just personally don't care for tcm worship services, well, hey, that's cool, you don't have to.
Seems a bit of a double standard in play.
I wonder what would happen if we all, whatever kind of music we like, took a music fast of a month or two? Would our taste change or stay the same?
Since we left North Dakota I haven't been to a polka worship service.
And that is a very good thing, in my often not so humble opinion.
I said SOME ccm and SOME tcm should be avoided.
Not all of either kind.
But so it goes--some folks think if you reject SOME of any form you must reject all. I don't.
I do find (and this is JUST personal experience based ONLY on my little town) that to say you PERSONALLY do not care for ccm worship services is to be branded a heretic and a legallist who does not care for evangelism. Of course, if you state you just personally don't care for tcm worship services, well, hey, that's cool, you don't have to.
Seems a bit of a double standard in play.
I wonder what would happen if we all, whatever kind of music we like, took a music fast of a month or two? Would our taste change or stay the same?
Since we left North Dakota I haven't been to a polka worship service.
And that is a very good thing, in my often not so humble opinion.
I can only answer for myself, but I do not do that, nor would I.
Ni ether do I.
Sometimes in worship, genuine worship, there is a place for shouting, for clapping, for laughter, for raising of hands, and even for dancing. (It's not un-Biblical) And, I'm not condemning you Nodak. I'm just challenging your seemingly narrow minded point of view that can't seem to get past the fact there can be excitement, joy, and even a bass drum in a worship service. And, it's not about being entertained. I can go to a secular concert for that. But, it is about the fact there are multiple and legitimate forms of worship that do involve emotions, happiness, use of musical skills, gifts, and talents that aren't limited too one person's opinion as to what constitutes a legitimate worship experience.
Sometimes in worship, genuine worship, there is a place for shouting, for clapping, for laughter, for raising of hands, and even for dancing. (It's not un-Biblical) And, I'm not condemning you Nodak. I'm just challenging your seemingly narrow minded point of view that can't seem to get past the fact there can be excitement, joy, and even a bass drum in a worship service. And, it's not about being entertained. I can go to a secular concert for that. But, it is about the fact there are multiple and legitimate forms of worship that do involve emotions, happiness, use of musical skills, gifts, and talents that aren't limited too one person's opinion as to what constitutes a legitimate worship experience.
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Alive in Christ
New Member
Pure Silliness.
It absolutely is limited to one person's "opinion," and that One is Christ. From which of His statements do you derive this poppycock?
Aaron, if it were up to you we'd be uptight, tightlipped, and unemotional robots. No joy, no excitement, no emotion.... If that's the type of worship that floats your boat then by all means knock yourself out. I for one have found times where I have been silent before the Lord in worshp. There have also been times of tears, of joy, of laughter, of excitement, of lifting of hands, and even clapping in time with the music of worship. All involved emotions. None are Un-Biblical and I challenge you to prove any of these things wrong. The burden is with you to show us where Jesus has told you personally to share with us (your opinion doesn't count here) where any of these things are wrong as you won't find them condemed in the Bible. So, good luck with the extra Biblical teaching.
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
Aaron, having emotions is part of what it is to be a man. God made you that way. You should praise God that He made us all with the capacity to feel instead of being robots. Instead of trying to reject that aspect of yourself, you should just accept it as God's gift. One of the reasons I love music so much is because of the way it can convey all kinds of feelings and you can relate to it because even though the songs may be personal to the writer, or about something you've never experienced, the feelings behind it are universal.
I get the impression that some think that CCM is required for the type of service you describe. I have been in services like that long before CCM started in churches. The moving of the Lord in a service is not dependent on the type of music. If a type of music is required for the moving of the Lord, then we should question if it is really the Lord that is moving.
Where is it written that the burden is mine? I asked you first to justify your position from Christ's commands, and all you can cite is your ignorance thereof?
Let it be noted that since Johnv was asked to cite his sources about attitudes in the past concerning music, he has bailed. He thought he could make outrageous claims and simply cite his college work to support them.
He didn't anticipate the fact that someone else might have a university degree in a humanities area, and has heard countless such claims from university instructors who take any opportunity they can to deprecate Christianity.
My piano professor said once, "Did you know the medieval church avoided B natural? They thought it inspired sensual thoughts."*
Most students just take what their teachers tell them at face value. Others are critical thinkers. Johnv evidently was the former.
*Medieval theory didn't use modes in a, b, and c, because d, e, and f were equivalent if they flatted the b.
He didn't anticipate the fact that someone else might have a university degree in a humanities area, and has heard countless such claims from university instructors who take any opportunity they can to deprecate Christianity.
My piano professor said once, "Did you know the medieval church avoided B natural? They thought it inspired sensual thoughts."*
Most students just take what their teachers tell them at face value. Others are critical thinkers. Johnv evidently was the former.
*Medieval theory didn't use modes in a, b, and c, because d, e, and f were equivalent if they flatted the b.
Aaron why do you always have to be insulting? There is nothing direct from Christ to report. Your are the one with an extra Biblical position that you so far have been un-able to support. Sorry to ruin your parade but emotions play a vital role in worship. Without then there would be no worship.
I'm simply direct with you, but speaking of being insulting, I seem to remember your suggesting Old Regular seek help for a pornography addiction because he disagreed with your characterization of modern worship.
Yes, there is, but it doesn't support your assertions. It dashes them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
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I was tongue and cheek with OldRegular. Goodness!!! Plus, I apologized. As far as the potter's vessel is concerned the same right back at you. You too have failed to support your position from scripture. But, for your edification, in the Old and New Testament, God's people over and over again displayed emotions in response to God's moving in thier lives. They were not little automated robots responding to God's moving with no feelings. In fact the shortest verse in the New Testament is "Jesus wept." Why did He weep if He were not moved by His emotions to do so?
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