Celebrating Christmas is an Insult to Christ

[ituttut]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
As you know, I neither have a problem with those who celebrate, nor those who choose not to. However, we are told to take the pagan altars and turn them into altars to God. So, use a tree or don't use a tree... does it really matter?

Hello Hope of Glory, and you make a good point. The only problem is that we known it is not biblical or the will of God to associate with pagan worship. We, in the Body of Christ, or not of the law, the ordinances of the Jew, or the pagan. So we try to prove by scripture (or the lack of it) to the Christian, there is error within their church/s. All we can do is try to point this out to them. We are “free and have liberty” in Christ, but are all things profitable to us, or do we see how far we can go in our freedom?

What Holy Days are we Christians requested to observe? I find no demand by Jesus to us today, nor from Christ Jesus in heaven to choose any day or days. The only “physical” remembrance, memorial or observance given to us is from Jesus, and then as revealed to Paul from Christ in heaven. It is a request, and we do it as “oft as we will”. Why bring trouble, and worldly worship with us as we commune with Him.

It is man today that demands all must do the will of the “mother church” and observe Holy Days she has set for all Christendom. Those that partake in giving gifts to friends, and relatives, but do not count such a day as a Holy Day, are buffeted, scorned, called “grinch’s, scrooge”, and usurper of the Holy church doctrine. But so many Christians fail to take into account the origin of the two Holy Days, or realize some of break away churches from the “mother” did not obey, for they did not believe in Christmas. But today it seems they have all come back in line with the Catholic thinking in these matters. The next in line that the churches are headed for is “lent”. Evidently the thinking is, the more Days we observe the Holier we get.

Does it matter? I would say not to many. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by Bro. James:
Grace Bible Baptist Church, which meets in Denham Springs, La., does not do the Mass of Christ(Christmas). She has not a cross nor crucifix. There is a pulpit with the words: "This Do In Remembrance of Me", also, a small table with flowers. She also has a modern piano. About 25-- born again, baptized believers meet there three or more times a week. We worship, pray, preach and see to the missionary work in Thailand, Romania and New Guinea. She has never been Catholic or Protestant.
She traces her faith and practice to the shores of Galilee--circa: A.D. 30, when Jesus called out the first assembly.

She is Sovereign Grace, Landmark, Missionary, Baptistic, Premillenial, blood bought, and anxiously awaiting the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

Selah,

Bro. James

Praise God for we do agree on the matter before us. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Liberty Baptist Church, which consist of 8 souls, does not do the mass either. It's only a season looking for a reason. Christ was NEVER "in" it.

I’m “tootin’” on that Hi-way with you Granny. That is until we hear that shout to “come on up”. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
Does the heathen not cut down "green trees"? Is this not the custom of the idolater?

You notably omit the crux of the verse: "Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good."

I neither worship nor fear the Christmas tree, and honor scripture via such a conviction. </font>[/QUOTE]Please look again JohnV. The wording is in my post. God is saying to us, "why are you doing this. It just stands there. What is the point, for it can do nothing to you, or for you. Don't you have anything better to do than go to all that trouble of cutting down a tree (or spending your hard earned money for one), and then just throw your worship of me away?”

Keep that which is Holy, out of the hands of man. Romans 12:1-2, ”I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by LawKeeper:
Wonderful post procyon, truer words have never been spoken

Amen LawKeeper. Ephesians 3. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[Eliyahu]

What we have to be careful about concerning the customs of the Christiandom is that they do not explicitly say that they follow the pagan customs, but in reality do perform exactly the same or slightly modernized form of pagan worship, pagan celebrations, pagan festivals as the pagans and apostate Israelites did in OT times.

I have seen nobody declares he or she is a follower of Satan, but believe Satan works diligently these days too.

1. How come December 25 is the Birthday of Horus?
2. How come Ever-Green Tree was used for celebrating Saturn god?
3. How come Green trees were the place for worshipping Ashera or Astaroth or Ishtar which are the same goddess by nature?

Christmas is the same product as the pagan festival, disguised and decorated merely with the name of Christ who never authorized it.

Ancient Israelites excused about their pagan worship, worshipping Queen of Heaven, worshipping Ashera, exactly in the same mannner as you guys defending and insisting on the Christmas ! I am not insulting you but strongly recommend you to re-consider remembering how Lord will see the parties and Orgy's during the Christmas and commercial use of His name during the season.
We also have to be careful about becoming Lukewarm by being drowned in the secular customs.

Look at the pagan calendar:
December 25th. - Birth of Horus (Egyptian)

Dies Natalis Invicti Solis (Roman)

Birthday of Mithras (Persian)

Haloa (Greek)

http://www.whisperingwood.homestead.com/Pagancalendar6.html

 

[Chemnitz]

I am not insulting you but strongly recommend you to re-consider remembering how Lord will see the parties and Orgy's during the Christmas and commercial use of His name during the season.

I can't say the same for everybody, but I for one didn't participate in any orgies during Christmas. I never have and I never will. So really your statement is non-sequitor, and to be frank an insulting non-sequitor. Despite the your claims to the contrary, it is an insulting thing to say because you are equating those of us who celebrate the Lord's birth on Dec 25th and take the time to share some happiness by giving others gifts, with those who go out and commit perverse acts in "honor" of their false idols.

The use of a tree during Christmas is neither required nor forbidden by the Bible. In fact, it never comes up. Only the use of trees in pagan rituals is forbidden. I for one have never worshiped a tree nor have I done any pagan rituals.

I as a Christian recognize the traditional Christmas tree as a symbol of the eternal life that comes from Christ whose birth we are celebrating. I as a Christian recognize the tradition of giving gifts as a symbol that points us to the gifts we recieve from Christ and that they teach us the joy of giving to others.

I for one am growing tired of your holier than thou inquisition and your insinuations that good Christians are practicing paganism by celebrating Christmas, because you alone find it an offensive holiday. Therefore, I am calling upon you to quit weighing down the consciences of Christian people with your false legalism.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
I can't say the same for everybody, but I for one didn't participate in any orgies during Christmas.

I didnt mean that every Christians participate in the Orgy's but the whole world is doing that and those Christians have the special event in harmony with them. The true christians should have done any good charities throughout the year!

Despite the your claims to the contrary, it is an insulting thing to say because you are equating those of us who celebrate the Lord's birth on Dec 25th and take the time to share some happiness by giving others gifts, with those who go out and commit perverse acts in "honor" of their false idols.

How can you prove that the birthday of Jesus is December 25?
Is condemning any Apostasy an Insult?
Many Apostates have felt the rightful condemnation on the idolatry as condemning that individual. Condemning the false theology or false religion must be seprated from condemning individual.
Sharing happiness comes from sharing the Good News of Redemption with unbelievers by preaching to the people in Orgy's.

The use of a tree during Christmas is neither required nor forbidden by the Bible. In fact, it never comes up.

Yes, because there was no celebration of Christmas, and therefore Bible didn't have to mention about it.

Only the use of trees in pagan rituals is forbidden. I for one have never worshiped a tree nor have I done any pagan rituals.

People do have Green Tree in the same manner as Pagan had worshipped their gods underneath Green Tree.
Even in OT times, they didn't worship the Green Trees, but worshipped Ashera, pagan Goddess.
Today people don't worship Green Tree, but do practise the same thing or orgies, with them standing beside.

I as a Christian recognize the traditional Christmas tree as a symbol of the eternal life that comes from Christ whose birth we are celebrating.

You are doing the same thing as Israelites did when they made a calf of gold.
" These be thy Elohim, who brought thee up out of the land of Egypt "Exodus 32:4, 8

Where did you find that Christmas Tree is a Symbol of the Eternal Life?


I as a Christian recognize the tradition of giving gifts as a symbol that points us to the gifts we recieve from Christ and that they teach us the joy of giving to others.

This is what you have to do anytime available in your life, without specifying any time.

I for one am growing tired of your holier than thou inquisition and your insinuations that good Christians are practicing paganism by celebrating Christmas, because you alone find it an offensive holiday. Therefore, I am calling upon you to quit weighing down the consciences of Christian people with your false legalism. [/QB]

Maybe the RC inquisitors celebrated Christmas very well, but the condemnation on the pagan rituals or any false doctrine is not legalism. What do you think Elijah who fought Idol worshippers would say about Christmas, if he comes today?

Was Jeremiah condemning Pagan worship by legalism?

 

[Bro. James]

Dust off your shoes Bro. Eliyahu and keep on going. You are not standing alone. The battle is not with flesh and blood but with spiritual wickedness in the heavenlies--against the wolves dressed like sheep.

An open statement to those offended: If you are offended by The Truth, perhaps an introspection of theology is in order. Sincerity never made anyone right--Saul of Tarsus was sincerely wrong. The Truth offends the world and nominal Christians. The Truth will also set one free from the law of bondage to sin.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by ituttut:
God is saying to us, "why are you doing this.

I esteem the day out of reverence, respect, and reflection of the birth of my Lord and Savior. Paul in the NT permits each individual to esteem one day over another, or no day over another, as s/he sees fit. My celebration of the day, and customs surrounding that, are by no means scripturally wrong.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
Funny, I didn't see an Ashera pole under my Christmas tree. Just because a pagan uses a particular location for their rituals does not preclude a Christian from using a similar location. Of course, I also didn't realize that celebrating the Birth of Christ was pagan. But then again I have never understood the holier than thou legalist stood the holier than thou legalist. [/QB]

Ashera worship means the worship of Goddess who is not God, or exalting anyone above God, like calling Mary as Mother of God.

I have never read any verse of Bible mentioning that Jesus celebrated His birthday or that Disciples celebrated the Birth of Christ .


Do you know why? Were they ignorant or legalist?

In our church which is so called Plymouth Brethren we don't have any Green Tree for the Christmas, but we do believe that Jesus was born to be the King, by dying for us (John 18:37)

How come, do they celebrate the Birthday of Horus (Egyptian God) disguised in the name of Jesus, on the exact day of December 25 ?

 

[Chemnitz]

Do you know why? Were they ignorant or legalist?

In our church which is so called Plymouth Brethren we don't have any Green Tree for the Christmas, but we do believe that Jesus was born to be the King, by dying for us (John 18:37)

Neither, it is adiaphora, neither here nor there. It is neither commanded nor forbidden. It simply isn't mentioned. I have to wonder would a purple tree be ok?

I didnt mean that every Christians participate in the Orgy's but the whole world is doing that and those Christians have the special event in harmony with them. The true christians should have done any good charities throughout the year!

Then you shouldn't say things you don't mean.

How can you prove that the birthday of Jesus is December 25?

I could careless which day it actually fell on in the liturgical calendar. It is adiaphora.

Is condemning any Apostasy an Insult?
Many Apostates have felt the rightful condemnation on the idolatry as condemning that individual. Condemning the false theology or false religion must be seprated from condemning individual.

Except you are not condemning apostacy only weighing down others through your weaker conscience.

Yes, because there was no celebration of Christmas, and therefore Bible didn't have to mention about it.

Just because it is not mentioned does not mean it didnot happen. In the same strain just because it is not mentioned does not mean it is forbidden.

Sharing happiness comes from sharing the Good News of Redemption with unbelievers by preaching to the people in Orgy's.

I don't know how you go about witnessing but I think going to an orgy to do so would be counter productive.

Today people don't worship Green Tree, but do practise the same thing or orgies, with them standing beside.

You are not as well informed as you pretend to be, people in naturalistic religions do worship trees amongst other things in nature.

Where did you find that Christmas Tree is a Symbol of the Eternal Life?

I do not have a source that I can quote, it was passed down through my family.

This is what you have to do anytime available in your life, without specifying any time.

I don't have to do anything, but I want to do it as often as I can. At the same time there is nothing wrong with setting one day aside specifically for a particular activity.

Maybe the RC inquisitors celebrated Christmas very well, but the condemnation on the pagan rituals or any false doctrine is not legalism. What do you think Elijah who fought Idol worshippers would say about Christmas, if he comes today?

Condemn the excesses and commend us for remembering and celebrating the fact God cared enough to be born of a virgin live as a helpless infant to later grow up and die and rise again.
It is legalism when you try to impose extrabiblical laws on the conscience of Christians. When you condemn Christians for celebrating Christmas, you are practicing legalism because you are imposing an extrabiblical law.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
I have never read any verse of Bible mentioning that Jesus celebrated His birthday or that Disciples celebrated the Birth of Christ.

The world did celebrate the birth of Jesus.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:

I didnt mean that every Christians participate in the Orgy's but the whole world is doing that and those Christians have the special event in harmony with them. The true christians should have done any good charities throughout the year!

Then you shouldn't say things you don't mean.


Can you find out any statement from me saying that?

If not, you are accusing me of it without any ground.

Bring out the exact statement about it!

 

[Chemnitz]

You said it

Ancient Israelites excused about their pagan worship, worshipping Queen of Heaven, worshipping Ashera, exactly in the same mannner as you guys defending and insisting on the Christmas ! I am not insulting you but strongly recommend you to re-consider remembering how Lord will see the parties and Orgy's during the Christmas and commercial use of His name during the season.
We also have to be careful about becoming Lukewarm by being drowned in the secular customs.

You made a clear connection between the Israelites who abandoned the faith for idols and Christians who celebrate Christmas and then associating said Christians with the orgies and the like.

 

[Eliyahu]

Fairly good story explaining how Christmas started.

http://qumran.com/Holiday_Files/a_christmas_story.htm

gb said: The world did celebrate the birth of Jesus.

Didn't the world try to kill Jesus at the time of His Birth?

 

[Johnv]

I'm wondering of those who condemn Christmas due to pagan roots likewise condemn use of the wir "Yahweh" for its Egyptian roots in polytheism. I thought that would be more interesting than asking if they condemn the names of the days of the week (it seems that every time that argument comes up, it's never adequately answered).

 

[Eliyahu]

Birhtday of Son of Sun god.

As the Sun begins the apparent annual northward journey on the 25th of December, this was said to be the birthday of the Sun (all movement commences with birth). This special day, the birthday of the Sun, was observed with great rejoicings. On this day the sign of the Virgin is rising on the eastern horizon, the Sun having reached the winter solstice.

http://paganizingfaithofyeshua.netfirms.com/birthday_of_son_of_sun_of_god.htm

 

[Eliyahu]

It is true that even the name of dates in the week contain pagan heritage. This is why Jews called simply days like first day of the week,
or the third day of the week.
Jesus went to the wedding on 3rd day of the week (Tuesday) because it was the Jewish custom to have wedding on Tuesday.(third day of the week)

We today have many pagan words in our lives, more or less, or serious or less serious. However it doesn't mean that they are all fine. We don't celebrate Monday for Moon, nor Tuesday for Mars, nor Friday for Venus. Saturday for Saturn. Therefore it is fine at the moment.

 

[padredurand]

Using the Internet is an insult to Christ!

According to the American Family Association there are over 2 million porn sites on the Internet. Using the logic of some, on an Internet website no less, we are insulting Jesus Christ by using a medium that is: 1)not mentioned in the Bible, 2)obviously consumed by paganism and conduct contrary to Scripture.

So how do you justify using the Internet and yet vilify folks that celebrate Christmas.