celebrating EASTER is an insult to Christ

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by padredurand:
So your concern is with the name Easter and not what it symbolizes? To what extent should that conviction apply? Should I refrain from driving my Ford Taurus on church business because it is named after an astrological sign or, perhaps, remove the tags and refer to it as my Ford Sedan.

The car will still be there for my use but I won't have to contend with promoting astrology by driving it.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Do you find the origin of Easter in the Bible?

Umm... Yes! Apparently the KJV translators weren't as put off by the word as you are...

And when hee had apprehended him, hee put him in prison, and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers to keepe him, intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. (Acts 12:4 KJV-1611)

Who am I to tell the translators they are in sin? </font>[/QUOTE]I don't know about Taurus, but don't like to drive "Saturn".

You can find the details about Acts 12:3-4 in another thread about KJV:
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3540/17.html
Some excerpts are as follows:

Why the time was Days of Unleavened Bread already, which means the Passover has already passed by. Passover is the first day of the Unleavened Bread Days, and if it was already in the middle of the Days Azumon (Unleavened), it means Passover was already passed. On this point, would you please explain your view once again?

***************
Pascha or Pasca in Greek should be checked further on the following issues:
-Whether we can find the use of the word in other ancient Greek literatures.
-Whether it was ever used for other festival than Pesach.

I don't think KJV translators didn't know about the meaning of it at that time. As you mentioned they translated correctly before and then noticed the contradiction in Acts 12:3-4, then verified it in this way:
Pascah has two meanings : 1) Pesach-Passover 2) Ishtar Festival.
And they found that the Royal families and Nobles during the Haesmonian Dynasty celebrated Ishtar Festival very much as we notice the similar celebration in Jeremiah 44:15-25, and as there was no Greek word for each separately, Pascah could have been used for both. I don't think the Royal families or nobles were so much faithful with Jehova's Festivals, but might have enjoyed certain secular festivals as we see Christmas these days.

One more thing which I am thinking about is that Verse 6 may give some hints, because it says " the same night when Herod would have brought him forth". In other words, the Pascah was already over then. Then it could be in Days of Unleavened Bread, or even Days of Unleavened Bread may have passed already.


However, if we see the next verses, we can have some hints, I think. If it happened right after Passover, then would Peter have departed next day (verse 17)? because it was still Days of Unleavened Bread. Would Herod have executed the soldiers during the Days of Unleavened Bread(v 19)? because Passover was passed just now, then.
Would Herod schedule the execution or hand over of Peter during the Days of Unleavened Bread?


WHY PASCA is mentioned as TAKING PLACE AFTER UNLEAVENED BREAD DAYS?
Acts 12:3 Then were the days of Unleavened Bread.

Acts 12:4 Intending after Pasca (Passover) to bring him forth to the people.

Acts 12:6 When Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping.
( Is this after Passover but during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

Acts 12:17 Peter departed to other place.(after Passover but during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

Acts 12: 20 Herod commanded that they should be put to death. (Execution during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

My study shows (as you could see in the sites which I mentioned) that:
1 ) Ishtar took place 1 day after Pesach, Pesach 14th of Abib month, Ishtar 15th of the same month. Ishtar lasted 8 days as well. .

2) Ishtar was much more popular throughout the Middle East world, while Pesach was celebrated by religious people of Israel.
3) Kings believed that Ishtar had the authority to appoint the kings and to dismiss them, and therefore Herod would have paid very much attention to it.

4) Even King Solomon worshipped Ishtar and didn't care about the Passover, but King Herod was more faithful with Passover? (1 Kings 11:5)


5) Days of Unleavened Bread had the focus on the first day, Passover, then I believe that Ishtar had the focus on the Sunday(Sunrise) and on the final day, as a finale, with a lot of Orgies

6) Both Pesach and Ishtar festival were called Pascha in Aramaic and I can imagine nobody would have called it as Ishtar because it was holy to them.
7) Then it was re-translated as PASXA in Greek.
Otherwise, it would be very difficult to understand the contradiction and the whole situation in Ac 12

[ January 06, 2006, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Eliyahu ]

 

[padredurand]

Nonetheless, the translators used the word Easter. They used it in 1611 and every revision since. You would think there has been ample opportunity to revise the "error". I am by no means a KJVO -maybe not even preferred - but the fact is inescapable, they used the word Easter.

I can only draw one of two conclusions from this: either the translators are in grievous error or your thesis is ungrounded. If the translators are in error in this one thing how can we rely on the integrity of the rest of their work? Are you ready to concede the Bible, as translated, is in error? The latter option is to concede the word Easter to be in such common usage so as to far remove it from any pagan connotation. That would make your supposition, that the word Easter is insulting to Christ, a meaningless argument. So do I side with the translators from 1611 until now or with you? I'm inclined toward the former. The word Easter in its common usage is harmless.

 

[Eliyahu]

Yes, they used the word Easter meaning Pagan Idol Worship!

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Yes, they used the word Easter meaning Pagan Idol Worship!

No they didn't. See the church calendar in the front of a 1611 reprint.

 

[padredurand]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Yes, they used the word Easter meaning Pagan Idol Worship!

No, they used it to designate time - a time, which by the 17th Century, associated Easter with the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and not pagan idol worship.

And when hee had apprehended him, hee put him in prison, and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers to keepe him, intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. (Acts 12:4 KJV-1611)

Either the word is benign or the translators are in error. It cannot be both.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by natters:
See the church calendar in the front of a 1611 reprint. [/QB]

Church calendar just reflect the secular customs.
When KJV included Apocrypha, it didn't mean it is the truth, but that there are such documents.

Local customs were to name it as Easter which was the customs of the world.

Please read what I reported on KJV.
KJV is excellent in this aspect! Also, Luther did the same!

You must distinguish between Fact and Truth.
The Serpent said " in the day ye eat thereof, and ye shall be as gods " : this is not truth but is a fact.

 

[padredurand]

You must distinguish between Fact and Truth.

As must you! The fact is they used the word Easter. However you wish to arrive at the conclusion is moot. Simply put they used the word Easter. Either the word is benign or it will draw you to suckle at the breast of the whore of Babylon. I cannot see the translators engaging in the latter so I must ascribe to the former.

 

[Eliyahu]

Easter Day means Pagan Festival, Ishtar Day

 

[padredurand]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Easter Day means Pagan Festival, Ishtar Day

And the message of the cross, in Roman hands was one of tyranny, oppression and death. In the hands of Christ it has become the power of God. In ancient times Easter may have meant Ishtar Day but in our time it proclaims Christ's victory over death and the grave. You are welcome to your conviction and I to mine. I will never question your sincerity nor the depth of your faith because of it. I am sure there are many of us who would appreciate the same in return.

 

[natters]

Local customs were to name it as Easter which was the customs of the world.

That's beside the point. The KJV translators used "Easter" to mean something other than Ishtar Day. They used it to mean the Christian holiday ("Holy Day") of recognizing and celebrating the resurrection of Christ. Period.

 

[larry9179]

Why make such a big deal of Christmas and Easter? Rome and Greece worshipped many gods. When Christianity began to flourish, they had no place to worship, so Constantine ordered temples built for Christians - thus we have our modern church. Should we throw out churches since Constantine himself wasn't saved?

The issue here is that Christians at some point simply decided that they weren't going to celebrate the birth of a sun god on the 25th of December, rather; if they were to celebrate any birth, it would be the birth of Christ. What the early Christians did was to focus on Christ instead of the false gods. Now how could paying attention to God possibly offend Him?

I heard someone complain to our pastor once that the worship music went on too long. It normally started at 10 and went on until 11 or 11:15, then the pastor would preach til he got done. This person felt like everyone needs to get out of church at a 'reasonable' time. The pastor responded, "I guess you're right Jim, God doesn't need a whole hour of praise." If you're still thinking that we changed how we did worship, you missed the point. It's not about us.

As far as Easter - Jesus didn't command us to celebrate His birth, but He did command us to remember Him every time we sit down to eat, every time Christians gather together. But we're so independent of Christ in our modern world that we've relegated this memory to scheduled Communion in church once a month (or a season). If He paid as much attention to us as we do to Him, we'd all be homeless, starving and naked.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Easter Day means Pagan Festival, Ishtar Day

Easter is a pagan holiday.

 

[natters]

Words have meanings. "Easter" in my dictionary says "A festival of the Christian church observed in commemoration of our Savior's resurrection. It answers to the pascha or passover of the Hebrews, and most nations still give it this name, pascha, pask, paque."

Yes, certain aspects may have had their origin in paganism, but that's NOT what "Easter" means today, nor in 1611.

 

[Eliyahu]

Lexicons do not reflect all the truth and it sometimes reflect paganism too.
I enjoy my religious freedo to declare the Truth:

Easter Day is the celebration of Pagan god Ishtar, Goddess and Mother of God !

 

[natters]

Hey, don't argue with me, argue with the English language.

 

[padredurand]

Easter Day is the celebration of Pagan god Ishtar, Goddess and Mother of God !

Oy! At least you are consistent, Eliyahu. Any other pagan rituals I ought to be warned about?

 

[Askjo]

Many believing scholars, who are liberal, and unbelieving scholars said that Easter is a "Christian" holiday, but many believing scholars, who are conservative, said that the Easter is a "pagan" holiday. A liberal group and a conservative group agrue each other over the definition of Easter.

I agree with Eliyahu concerning the Easter, "pagan" festival.

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Askjo:
Many believing scholars, who are liberal, and unbelieving scholars said that Easter is a "Christian" holiday, but many believing scholars, who are conservative, said that the Easter is a "pagan" holiday. A liberal group and a conservative group agrue each other over the definition of Easter.

False dilemma. You don't know of any believing conservative scholars that recognize Easter is a Christian holiday? Come on. And buy a dictionary.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by natters:

False dilemma. You don't know of any believing conservative scholars that recognize Easter is a Christian holiday? Come on. And buy a dictionary.

Well, a liberal scholar said, "I am a conservative."

I have many books -- dictionaries, Bible references, Bible commentaries, and others. I found "Easter" in my books.

 

[padredurand]

Many believing scholars, who are liberal, and unbelieving scholars said that Easter is a "Christian" holiday, but many believing scholars, who are conservative, said that the Easter is a "pagan" holiday. A liberal group and a conservative group agrue each other over the definition of Easter..... Well, a liberal scholar said, "I am a conservative."

Many scholars? Liberals? Unbelievers? Liberal and conservative groups? Related to the "unnamed sources" oft mentioned in the National Enquirer, perhaps?

Six pages into this topic and the only thing resolved is when y'all have painted yourselves into a corner you just yell Easter Day is the celebration of Pagan god Ishtar, Goddess and Mother of God ! until the paint dries.

So, I've asked this before and it was ignored. Let's see if we can get an answer this time. The KJV translators used the word Easter. It's a fact, I've seen it in print myself. Either the word is benign or the KJ translators are perpetuating the celebration of the pagan god Ishtar.

So, are they in error or is the term Easter meaningless?