Cessationism or Continuationism

[1689Dave]

Faith comes by hearing the word.

So, like John the Baptist, who was indwelt with the Holy Spirit in the womb.

Like the Roman Centurion whom Jesus "found faith in".

I'm sure I could find other examples.

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All believers believe because they have the Holy Spirit. But the charismatic gifts ceased with the apostles.

 

[37818]

If you go by scripture alone, which is a good thing, the gifts came only through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands.

Not according the 1 Corinthians 12 & 1 Corinthians 14. I am a professed Cessationist according to 1 Corithians 13:8-12 and Revelation 1:1 & Revelation 22:18. As I have explained in this thread. Have you read my posts?

 

[37818]

Provide scripture showing a third way so you don't add to scripture.

Define what you mean by "third wave?" Or are you continuing with false accusations?

 

[1689Dave]

Define what you mean by "third wave?" Or are you continuing with false accusations?

3rd way not 3rd wave.

 

[1689Dave]

Not according the 1 Corinthians 12 & 1 Corinthians 14. I am a professed Cessationist according to 1 Corithians 13:8-12 and Revelation 1:1 & Revelation 22:18. As I have explained in this thread. Have you read my posts?

You need to balance these against the means of distribution.

 

[37818]

You need to balance these against the means of distribution.

And what do you mean? Balance what? Means of distribution of what?

I hold two speaking gifts where said to be "in part," 1 Corinthians 13:9. And those two as speaking gifts are side to be "done away," 1 Corinthians 13:8, 1 Corinthians 13:10.

What is perfect, James 1:17; James 1:25.

The two gifts "in part" would be done away by a perfect, 1 Corinthians 13:10. The Apostle Paul would be present with the Lord when this would take place, 1 Corinthians 13:12; 2 Corinthians 5:8. And the Revelation 1:1 of Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:10; Luke 24:44) would have a seal upon it not to add the hearing of it, Revelation 22:18.

 

[1689Dave]

And what do you mean? Balance what? Means of distribution of what?

I hold two speaking gifts where said to be "in part," 1 Corinthians 13:9. And those two as speaking gifts are side to be "done away," 1 Corinthians 13:8, 1 Corinthians 13:10.

What is perfect, James 1:17; James 1:25.

The two gifts "in part" would be done away by a perfect, 1 Corinthians 13:10. The Apostle Paul would be present with the Lord when this would take place, 1 Corinthians 13:12; 2 Corinthians 5:8. And the Revelation 1:1 of Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:10; Luke 24:44) would have a seal upon it not to add the hearing of it, Revelation 22:18.

You are getting into areas that lead nowhere. If you realize the gifts came in only two ways, now extinct, it helps resolve these passages.

 

[InTheLight]

You are getting into areas that lead nowhere. If you realize the gifts came in only two ways, now extinct, it helps resolve these passages.

So there is no way that God could supernaturally empower a missionary with the gifts of tongues, since there are no apostles around to lay hands on them. This is what I mean by limiting the sovereignty of God.

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[1689Dave]

So there is no way that God could supernaturally empower a missionary with the gifts of tongues, since there are no apostles around to lay hands on them. This is what I mean by limiting the sovereignty of God.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

Tongues were not what you seem to think they are.

 

[37818]

You are getting into areas that lead nowhere. If you realize the gifts came in only two ways, now extinct, it helps resolve these passages.

First off, the notion that all the gifts ended with the Apostles is an interpretation not an explicit teaching of the word of God. It is just not.

Answer this, when is the following referring to? ". . . I will give you a mouth and wisdom, . . ." v.15, Luke 21:10-20. It explicitly states a promise of a word of wisdom.

 

[37818]

. . . God could supernaturally empower a missionary with the gifts of tongues, . . .

Two things here. Tongues became inoperative when the two gifts were "done away." And God is not going to countermand His own word. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12; v.12, ". . . face to face . . . ." 2 Corinthians 5:8; ". . . perfect . . . ." James 1:17; Revelation 22:18, ". . . that heareth . . . ."

 

[1689Dave]

First off, the notion that all the gifts ended with the Apostles is an interpretation not an explicit teaching of the word of God. It is just not.

Answer this, when is the following referring to? ". . . I will give you a mouth and wisdom, . . ." v.15, Luke 21:10-20. It explicitly states a promise of a word of wisdom.

This "wisdom" existed long before the gifts. You need to study the subject apart from the Pentecostal framework they force onto scripture. Nobody knows less about the gifts than the Pentecostals.

 

[37818]

This "wisdom" existed long before the gifts. You need to study the subject apart from the Pentecostal framework they force onto scripture. Nobody knows less about the gifts than the Pentecostals.

That is an interpertation. And thank you, you answered part of what I was asking, but the "when" for that given word of wisdom was not clearly answered. This interpertation seems to be rooted in the interpertation that all or any of the New Covenant gifts of the Spirit are only possible through the laying on of hands of the Apostles. (Special Pleading.)

In around 1968 dealt with Pentecostals. They are in error regarding the gifts of tougues and the working of the Holy Spirit. I did my first exhaustive study on the Holy Spirit at that time.

 

[1689Dave]

That is an interpertation. And thank you, you answered part of what I was asking, but the "when" for that given word of wisdom was not clearly answered. This interpertation seems to be rooted in the interpertation that all or any of the New Covenant gifts of the Spirit are only possible through the laying on of hands of the Apostles. (Special Pleading.)

We can play around with interpretations to no avail. But only direct quotes from scripture prove a point. So far scripture says the gifts came through the two outpourings, or through an apostle's hands. No other means is accounted for.

 

[37818]

No other means is accounted for.

A special pleading in that you disallow an explicit exception cited Acts of the Apostles 10:43-46.

 

[1689Dave]

This was one of two outpourings. First the Jewish. Then 7 years later the gentile outpouring. Beyond these two scripture only mentions an apostle as the means of distributing the gifts.

 

[37818]

This was one of two outpourings. First the Jewish. Then 7 years later the gentile outpouring. Beyond these two scripture only mentions an apostle as the means of distributing the gifts.

Still a special pleading, and not according to 1 Corinthians 12:11; Acts of the Apostles 10:43-46.

 

[1689Dave]

Still a special pleading, and not according to 1 Corinthians 12:11; Acts of the Apostles10:43-46.

You can make it say what you like, but you need to find direct quotes defining the means of distribution, which I have provided. Otherwise you are ripe for the picking.

 

[37818]

You can make it say what you like, but you need to find direct quotes defining the means of distribution, which I have provided. Otherwise you are ripe for the picking.

I gave a direct quote, 1 Corinthians 12:11.

Cessationism and continuationism are matters of interpretation. There is what the word of God says and what it does not say. Interpretation being the who, what, when, where, how and why of it. Disagreement comes in what is being denied or added to what it actually says. Generalizations versus deductions, the generalization will be wrong of the two.

 

[1689Dave]

I gave a direct quote, 1 Corinthians 12:11.

Cessationism and continuationism are matters of interpretation. There is what the word of God says and what it does not say. Interpretation being the who, what, when, where, how and why of it. Disagreement comes in what is being denied or added to what it actually says. Generalizations versus deductions, the generalization will be wrong of the two.

Re;

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

“Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)” (Acts 8:14–17)

“Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:17–18)

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)