Choice: God or Man - exegete John 6:32-40

[Revmitchell]

Perhaps you need to speak more clearly. I cannot read your mind and you seem to assume I can follow your statement when it is quite vague.
Am I asking too much of you?

Uh no it was not vague. I am always quite clear to the point of being blunt. This is all on you.,

 

[Revmitchell]

What???

I'm sorry, I do not know how I have been dishonest with you.
What is clear I that you are saying something that I am missing when you speak. This is why I continue to ask you to be clear and specific. It occurs to me that you may be intentionally vague, but for what reason I do not know.

Uh baloney you know better.

 

[MB]

[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

For the preaching of false dpctrine to those who know and

What???

I'm sorry, I do not know how I have been dishonest with you.
What is clear I that you are saying something that I am missing when you speak. This is why I continue to ask you to be clear and specific. It occurs to me that you may be intentionally vague, but for what reason I do not know.

Eph 2:8 still says grace comes through faith. That means faith first there is no way you can get around it. No Faith No Grace that destroys everything you add to scripture to support your false doctrine.
MB

 

[MB]

Really? Because the passage sure seems to compare between those who are saved and those who aren't.

1 Corinthians 1:18-21
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

Yes God has made your wisdom foolish. The tulip is Pharisaical nonsense it doesn't say what you claim at all.
Your input about what it is saying is not true. It's just what you think because you don't understand it.
MB

 

[Particular]

Uh no it was not vague. I am always quite clear to the point of being blunt. This is all on you.,

I disagree. In fact, you are often vague. I would not ask for clarification if you were clear and to the point. If you wish to dialogue with me, then I will ask clarifying questions and seek to discern the path you are going down.
You may imagine you are clear. I am telling you that you are not clear to me.

 

[Particular]

Uh baloney you know better.

Wrong. Try again.

 

[Particular]

For the preaching of false dpctrine to those who know and

Eph 2:8 still says grace comes through faith. That means faith first there is no way you can get around it. No Faith No Grace that destroys everything you add to scripture to support your false doctrine.
MB

Read verses 4 & 5. They clarify what saves you. The answer is... God's grace, which comes by the faith given to you by God so that you can have no opportunity to boast.



English Standard Version Ephesians 2:4-5,8 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

 

[Dave G]

I disagree. In fact, you are often vague. I would not ask for clarification if you were clear and to the point. If you wish to dialogue with me, then I will ask clarifying questions and seek to discern the path you are going down.
You may imagine you are clear. I am telling you that you are not clear to me.

From my point of view, @Revmitchell does that.

For example,

Getting him to state what a passage says, verse by verse ( what this thread was originally about ) in his own words, is something that I've been trying to get him to do now for a long time.
But to me, he keeps avoiding it.

I have no idea why.

Granted, he doesn't owe anyone this privilege...
But, as I see it, this was a good thread for him to take advantage of the opportunity to do this.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 9:25 PM Pacific.

 

[MB]

Read verses 4 & 5. They clarify what saves you. The answer is... God's grace, which comes by the faith given to you by God so that you can have no opportunity to boast.



English Standard Version Ephesians 2:4-5,8 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

I have read them and it makes no difference Calvinism and total depravity are wrong
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
(This is true as it is)
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)

(yes and the same writer later said grace comes through faith. He did not say it does not come through faith at any time).

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus
true )

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus
.(True
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(Here we have your problem that grace comes through faith I've read it so many times and have studied it for many years)
We are all sinners unworthy of Salvation. Yet with out faith first we are lost because we will not get any grace. with out faith.
MB

 

[Wesley Briggman]

This verse compares worldly thinking vs. Spiritual thinking which can be done by saved people as well. It is not a comparison between the lost and the saved

This verse compares the eternal state of those rejecting the preaching of the cross, perishing from the presence of God for eternity, with the eternal state of us who accept the preaching of the cross, spending eternity with Christ!

[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish[G622] foolishness; but unto us which are saved[G4982] it is the power of God.

The KJV translates Strong's G622 in the following manner: perish (33x), destroy (26x), lose (22x), be lost (5x), lost (4x), miscellaneous (2x).

Them that perish are lost, condemned to eternal death.

The KJV translates Strong's G4982 in the following manner: save (93x), make whole (9x), heal (3x), be whole (2x), miscellaneous (3x).

Them that are saved are made-whole, to be with Christ for eternity

You can redefine the word of God as you wish - at your own peril.

 

[MB]

Particular;
For years now I have debated with Calvinist. It seems everyone is proud to claim election as theres. I see election as it is a choosing. All the disciples were chosen yet one went to perdition. Election does not guarantee Salvation and believe me we are all chosen by the death and resurrection of Chris. Because Christ died for all not just some special elect. Since Christ we are all the same.
Rom_3:22 and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, —for there is no difference,
Rom_10:12 for there is no difference between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord of all is rich to all those calling upon Him,
Your special election and the rest of your tulip is a man made doctrine
MB

 

[Particular]

Yes God has made your wisdom foolish. The tulip is Pharisaical nonsense it doesn't say what you claim at all.
Your input about what it is saying is not true. It's just what you think because you don't understand it.
MB

I have never once brought up the Dutch response to the Remonstrants. This seems to be your strawman when scripture is shared with you. I reject your strawman.

 

[Particular]

I have read them and it makes no difference Calvinism and total depravity are wrong
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
(This is true as it is)
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)

(yes and the same writer later said grace comes through faith. He did not say it does not come through faith at any time).

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus
true )

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus
.(True
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(Here we have your problem that grace comes through faith I've read it so many times and have studied it for many years)
We are all sinners unworthy of Salvation. Yet with out faith first we are lost because we will not get any grace. with out faith.
MB

The writer twice confirms we are saved by grace.
He then adds, through faith, yet that faith is not of your self. It is, instead, a gift from God, so that no one can boast.
Paul couldn't be more clear, yet you are working hard to make it muddy. Why is that? Let scripture speak to you.

 

[Particular]

Particular;
For years now I have debated with Calvinist. It seems everyone is proud to claim election as theres. I see election as it is a choosing. All the disciples were chosen yet one went to perdition. Election does not guarantee Salvation and believe me we are all chosen by the death and resurrection of Chris. Because Christ died for all not just some special elect. Since Christ we are all the same.
Rom_3:22 and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, —for there is no difference,
Rom_10:12 for there is no difference between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord of all is rich to all those calling upon Him,
Your special election and the rest of your tulip is a man made doctrine
MB

Again, you have created a strawman that I can reject. John 6 is clear. You are fighting against God and His word.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 9:25 PM Pacific.