Chosen to Eternal Life? [Acts 13:48]

[Iconoclast]

Yet another thread where the Calvinist misrepresentation of a verse is presented yet again. The word translated appointed or ordained means an arrangement by mutual consent. It is not the word used for a unilateral assignment. Thus the many that were appointed were those who took Paul's direction, not God's assignment, and His direction was whoever believes in Him shall not perish. So those that took that direction believed.

All this effort to make this seem like something only a person well studied in Greek could comprehend is simply an effort to disenfranchise opponents of false doctrine.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:.....sure...."mutual consent"...lol

 

[quantumfaith]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: maybe one day you will go back and read the many responses you have been given and ignore:thumbs:

Unfair Icon, I do not always agree with Winman, but he does not ignore, he is always willing to respond. Obviously, you give little value to his responses, but to charge him with "ignoring" is just not accurate.

 

[Iconoclast]

Unfair Icon, I do not always agree with Winman, but he does not ignore, he is always willing to respond. Obviously, you give little value to his responses, but to charge him with "ignoring" is just not accurate.

When people take the time to go over his posts, explain the greek words ,etc....and he then goes on to repeat the errors over and over...what would you call it QF....When is the last time you saw winman say....
good point, I never saw that before????

 

[freeatlast]

Acts 13:48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Some on this forum insist that election is the decision of man and God rubber stamps man’s choice! The above Scripture demonstrates that this doctrine is completely false. It is God who ordains or appoints individuals to eternal life.

And it is man who from free will accepts. God's election and man's free will working unto salvation.

John 7:17
"If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."

 

[OldRegular]

This doctrine and verse stands as a clear light on God's election of individuals to salvation. There is no escape or way out of this verse as well as many others.

When I was a young [not in years] believer I believed, as do many on this Board, in the free will of mankind.

I believe it was the Scripture Acts 13:48 that, more than any other, started me on the path of understanding and believing the wonderful Doctrines of Grace. My Dad, an Old Regular Baptist, first brought that passage to my attention. God is to be praised for His marvelous Grace!

 

[OldRegular]

And it is man who from free will accepts. God's election and man's free will working unto salvation.

Not really freeatlast!

 

[freeatlast]

When I was a young [not in years] believer I believed, as do many on this Board, in the free will of mankind.

I believe it was the Scripture Acts 13:48 that, more than any other, started me on the path of understanding and believing the wonderful Doctrines of Grace. My Dad, an Old Regular Baptist, first brought that passage to my attention. God is to be praised for His marvelous Grace!

You are half way there. You will be able to praise Him even more once you accept the bibles teaching that both election and free will are part of His plan. Glory to God!
:godisgood:

 

[Winman]

When people take the time to go over his posts, explain the greek words ,etc....and he then goes on to repeat the errors over and over...what would you call it QF....When is the last time you saw winman say....
good point, I never saw that before????

If you ever make a good point I will acknowledge it.

 

[freeatlast]

Not really freeatlast!

Yes really. Just like Jesus was really both man and God, God uses election and free will unto salvation. :godisgood:

 

[quantumfaith]

When people take the time to go over his posts, explain the greek words ,etc....and he then goes on to repeat the errors over and over...what would you call it QF....When is the last time you saw winman say....
good point, I never saw that before????

He is no more "obstinate" about his views than any one of the rest of us. Just because someone explains "how they and their scholars" see something does not make one necessarily right and the other wrong.

 

[quantumfaith]

When I was a young [not in years] believer I believed, as do many on this Board, in the free will of mankind.

I believe it was the Scripture Acts 13:48 that, more than any other, started me on the path of understanding and believing the wonderful Doctrines of Grace. My Dad, an Old Regular Baptist, first brought that passage to my attention. God is to be praised for His marvelous Grace!

I am "old" both chronologically and "spiritually" and I still count myself (happily and confidently) among those "free willers". At least in the pejorative sense that it is so often bantered about around here.

 

[OldRegular]

That is beside the point being made. Luke is simply saying that they are proving that they (their people) have been appointed for eternal life...that God has, from the beginning, chosen to 'graft in' other nations besides Israel. They prove that by their faith.

I appreciate the greek explanations, I really do. I studied the language for several years, and still have much to learn. But when I travelled overseas to the Holy Land I spoke with some very intelligent believers who actually speak and write in Greek about this and other verses. They literally laughed out loud at the Cal/Arm controversy. They find it superfluous and tedious. They said, 'we don't think in those terms,' and went on to explain how the 'Western' culture is too ego centric and thinks everything is about them individually. I was a bit offended at first, as I was a Calvinist at the time, but after much maturing and study, I think he is exactly right.
[/INDENT]

Salvation is and always has been an individual/personal transaction between God and man. I am unaware of Scripture that indicate otherwise. If there is I would appreciate being enlightened.

 

[quantumfaith]

Well, I'm not a Greek scholar, but I am a grammar geek and get a steady diet of James White.

Does it help you to lose weight?

 

[quantumfaith]

That is beside the point being made. Luke is simply saying that they are proving that they (their people) have been appointed for eternal life...that God has, from the beginning, chosen to 'graft in' other nations besides Israel. They prove that by their faith.

I appreciate the greek explanations, I really do. I studied the language for several years, and still have much to learn. But when I travelled overseas to the Holy Land I spoke with some very intelligent believers who actually speak and write in Greek about this and other verses. They literally laughed out loud at the Cal/Arm controversy. They find it superfluous and tedious. They said, 'we don't think in those terms,' and went on to explain how the 'Western' culture is too ego centric and thinks everything is about them individually. I was a bit offended at first, as I was a Calvinist at the time, but after much maturing and study, I think he is exactly right.

Leo Garrett, in his well known Systematic Theology, wrote this on the subject, and I think explains the issue quite well:

"From Augustine of Hippo to the twentieth century, Western Christianity has tended to interpret the doctrine of election from the perspective of and with regard to individual human beings. During those same centuries the doctrine has been far less emphasized and seldom ever controversial in Eastern Orthodoxy. Is it possible that Augustine and later Calvin, with the help of many others, contributed to a hyper individualization of this doctrine that was hardly warranted by Romans 9-11, Eph. 1, and I Peter 2? Is it not true that the major emphasis in both testaments falls upon an elect people -- Israel (OT) and disciples or church (NT)?"
​

Excellent analysis. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Winman]

He is no more "obstinate" about his views than any one of the rest of us. Just because someone explains "how they and their scholars" see something does not make one necessarily right and the other wrong.

One reason I rarely pay any attention to Icon's posts is that all he does is parrot others. If I wanted to hear what Reformed preachers of the past thought, I could build a Reformed library or listen to Sermon Audio as he does.

I prefer to discuss scripture with someone who speaks for themselves. Anybody can parrot someone else, that does not make one a scholar.

Look, I am sure I err at times, but I always post scripture and explain my own interpretation of that scripture. I have on occasions quoted Barnes, or Gill, or Spurgeon, but that is usually to show that my own personal interpretations are not "off the wall". In fact, these scholars are often very close how I personally interpret scripture.

I am of the belief that all believers have the Holy Spirit and with prayer can come to understand scripture.

I simply like to think for myself, and I enjoy speaking with others who can think for themselves. I do not appreciate parrots.

 

[OldRegular]

I am "old" both chronologically and "spiritually" and I still count myself (happily and confidently) among those "free willers". At least in the pejorative sense that it is so often bantered about around here.

Forty five plus years is not young spiritually. Eighty plus years is not young chronologically, unless one is politically correct. I will confess that I use the term "freewiller" in the pejorative sense and I should not do so!

 

[quantumfaith]

One reason I rarely pay any attention to Icon's posts is that all he does is parrot others. If I wanted to hear what Reformed preachers of the past thought, I could build a Reformed library or listen to Sermon Audio as he does.

I prefer to discuss scripture with someone who speaks for themselves. Anybody can parrot someone else, that does not make one a scholar.

Look, I am sure I err at times, but I always post scripture and explain my own interpretation of that scripture. I have on occasions quoted Barnes, or Gill, or Spurgeon, but that is usually to show that my own personal interpretations are not "off the wall". In fact, these scholars are often very close how I personally interpret scripture.

I am of the belief that all believers have the Holy Spirit and with prayer can come to understand scripture.

I simply like to think for myself, and I enjoy speaking with others who can think for themselves. I do not appreciate parrots.

I really like, admire and respect this about you Winman.

 

[quantumfaith]

Forty five plus years is not young spiritually. Eighty plus years is not young chronologically, unless one is politically correct. I will confess that I use the term "freewiller" in the pejorative sense and I should not do so!

I really appreciate that and will promise to return the "favor" by not being "disrespectful" toward others not of my ilk as well.

 

[percho]

And Saul, yet breathing of threatening and slaughter to the disciples of the Lord, having gone to the chief priest, did ask from him letters to Damascus, unto the synagogues, that if he may find any being of the way, both men and women, he may bring them bound to Jerusalem.

At this time was Saul in unbelief or belief, was he an unbeliever or a believer. Once again unbeliever/believer of what?

And in the going, he came nigh to Damascus, and suddenly there shone round about him a light from the heaven, and having fallen upon the earth, he heard a voice saying to him, `Saul, Saul, why me dost thou persecute?'

At that moment was Saul an unbeliever or a believer?

And he said, `Who art thou, Lord?'

What about at that moment, an unbeliever or believer?

and the Lord said, `I am Jesus whom thou dost persecute; hard for thee at the pricks to kick;'

Jesus who? Jesus what?

trembling also, and astonished, he (Saul) said, `Lord, what dost thou wish me to do?'

What about at this moment, unbeliever or believer?

and the Lord [said] unto him, `Arise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what it behoveth thee to do.' And the men who are journeying with him stood speechless, hearing indeed the voice but seeing no one, and Saul arose from the earth, and his eyes having been opened, he beheld no one, and leading him by the hand they brought him to Damascus, and he was three days without seeing, and he did neither eat nor drink.

I wonder why three days?

And there was a certain disciple in Damascus, by name Ananias, and the Lord said unto him in a vision, `Ananias;' and he said, `Behold me, Lord;' and the Lord [saith] unto him, `Having risen, go on unto the street that is called Straight, and seek in the house of Judas, [one] by name Saul of Tarsus, for, lo, he doth pray, and he saw in a vision a man, by name Ananias, coming in, and putting a hand on him, that he may see again.' And Ananias answered, `Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how many evils he did to Thy saints in Jerusalem, and here he hath authority from the chief priests, to bind all those calling on Thy name.'

And the Lord said unto him, `Be going on, because a choice vessel to Me is this one, to bear My name before nations and kings -- the sons also of Israel; for I will shew him how many things it behoveth him for My name to suffer.'

Is Saul at this moment still blind, whatever that means, is he still in unbelief or belief?

And Ananias went away, and did enter into the house, and having put upon him [his] hands, said, `Saul, brother, the Lord hath sent me -- Jesus who did appear to thee in the way in which thou wast coming -- that thou mayest see again, and mayest be filled with the Holy Spirit.'

Once Jesus the Lord, who, what? Acts 2:36 assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him -- this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'------Exactly when did God make Jesus both Lord and Christ?

And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales, he saw again also presently, and having risen, was baptized, and having received nourishment, was strengthened, and Saul was with the disciples in Damascus certain days, and immediately in the synagogues he was preaching the Christ, that he is the Son of God.

Who was he preaching the Christ, the Son of God? Why was he preaching this.

Just when did this free will kick in and save Saul?
Free will is an amazing thing, Ain't it.

 

[quantumfaith]

And Saul, yet breathing of threatening and slaughter to the disciples of the Lord, having gone to the chief priest, did ask from him letters to Damascus, unto the synagogues, that if he may find any being of the way, both men and women, he may bring them bound to Jerusalem.

At this time was Saul in unbelief or belief, was he an unbeliever or a believer. Once again unbeliever/believer of what?

And in the going, he came nigh to Damascus, and suddenly there shone round about him a light from the heaven, and having fallen upon the earth, he heard a voice saying to him, `Saul, Saul, why me dost thou persecute?'

At that moment was Saul an unbeliever or a believer?

And he said, `Who art thou, Lord?'

What about at that moment, an unbeliever or believer?

and the Lord said, `I am Jesus whom thou dost persecute; hard for thee at the pricks to kick;'

Jesus who? Jesus what?

trembling also, and astonished, he (Saul) said, `Lord, what dost thou wish me to do?'

What about at this moment, unbeliever or believer?

and the Lord [said] unto him, `Arise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what it behoveth thee to do.' And the men who are journeying with him stood speechless, hearing indeed the voice but seeing no one, and Saul arose from the earth, and his eyes having been opened, he beheld no one, and leading him by the hand they brought him to Damascus, and he was three days without seeing, and he did neither eat nor drink.

I wonder why three days?

And there was a certain disciple in Damascus, by name Ananias, and the Lord said unto him in a vision, `Ananias;' and he said, `Behold me, Lord;' and the Lord [saith] unto him, `Having risen, go on unto the street that is called Straight, and seek in the house of Judas, [one] by name Saul of Tarsus, for, lo, he doth pray, and he saw in a vision a man, by name Ananias, coming in, and putting a hand on him, that he may see again.' And Ananias answered, `Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how many evils he did to Thy saints in Jerusalem, and here he hath authority from the chief priests, to bind all those calling on Thy name.'

And the Lord said unto him, `Be going on, because a choice vessel to Me is this one, to bear My name before nations and kings -- the sons also of Israel; for I will shew him how many things it behoveth him for My name to suffer.'

Is Saul at this moment still blind, whatever that means, is he still in unbelief or belief?

And Ananias went away, and did enter into the house, and having put upon him [his] hands, said, `Saul, brother, the Lord hath sent me -- Jesus who did appear to thee in the way in which thou wast coming -- that thou mayest see again, and mayest be filled with the Holy Spirit.'

Once Jesus the Lord, who, what? Acts 2:36 assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him -- this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'------Exactly when did God make Jesus both Lord and Christ?

And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales, he saw again also presently, and having risen, was baptized, and having received nourishment, was strengthened, and Saul was with the disciples in Damascus certain days, and immediately in the synagogues he was preaching the Christ, that he is the Son of God.

Who was he preaching the Christ, the Son of God? Why was he preaching this.

Just when did this free will kick in and save Saul?
Free will is an amazing thing, Ain't it.

Yes, I think it is an amazing and awesome characteristic that God made a part of His design. Very humbling.