psalms109:31 said:
I told you how they used goats back then to lead poor sheep to thier death, just like the pharisees were doing and many of you doing.
Sorry, Psalms 109.31, but you seem to have misunderstood me. I agree that goats were sometimes used in that way. But what I am asking you is this: Where
in the bible are false teachers likened to goats?
psalms109:31 said:
Telling a poor sheep that there is some sheep that are goats when Jesus looked out at the people and said they were sheep without a shephard.
As I said before, Jesus did not say that they
were sheep without a shepherd, but that they were "
like sheep having no shepherd." (The KJV says, "
as sheep"). If He had meant that they
were His sheep, then every person of those multitudes would have believed on Him, for in John 10.27 He says, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."
psalms109:31 said:
We are tell the world that God loved them that He sent His Son and all I hear from some calvinist that He doesn't and telling the poor sheep that God is a liar. To me those are goats leading sheep to the slaughter just like the phatrisees where.
We must preach to all that "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners." We are to preach to all, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Nowhere do we read of the apostles telling people other than Christians that they are Christ's sheep already.
psalms109:31 said:
I tell you that Jesus was talking about the pharises who were leading the poor sheep to destruction.
If you mean John 10.26, where He says, "You are not of My sheep," I wonder where it says that He only meant the Pharisees? John 10.24 just says that they were "Jews".
psalms109:31 said:
I cannot help you see, but those are the people who have missunderstood Pauls word just like other scripture to thier own destruction.
Who do you mean by "those"? In the verse where those words about "their own destruction" appear, 2 Peter 3.16, they are described as "unstable people":
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
psalms109:31 said:
How goats were used back then tells me who are the goats.
Not unless you back it up with Scripture. As far as I know, out of the 145 occurences in the bible, the only places where the word "goat" or "goats" is used to mean anything other than a four-legged animal with horns, are:
"I will bring them down Like lambs to the slaughter, Like rams with male goats." (Jeremiah 51:40)
(There it is referring to the Chaldaeans).
And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats." (Ezekiel 34:17) (There God is talking about His flock. He has already talked about the false teachers as "shepherds" in verses 2, 7 8 and 10)
"And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king." (Daniel 8:21)
" "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats." (Matthew 25:32)
In every other place, the word means an actual goat (apart, perhaps, from the Song of Solomon, with its phrases such as, "Your hair is like a flock of goats.") So I ask again, "Where,
in the bible, are false teachers called goats?"
psalms109:31 said:
There is men out there that have misunderstood the scripture to thier own destruction and trying to get others to follow.
Are you saying that to understand the scriptures, I
must believe that "goats" means "false teachers"? If you are, then you must provide some
scriptural backing. Like the Bereans, I have "searched the scriptures" to see if what you have said is true, but I cannot find it.
psalms109:31 said:
God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
You can either believe men understanding of all and be lead down a wrong path or believe God that He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
You are going to continue to believe what you want, but I know who the goats are, and if they turn to Jesus, Jesus will turn that old person a goat into a His sheep a new creation.
Now you have me really confused! You have been claiming all along that that everyone is a "sheep" until the last judgment. Now you are saying that when Jesus makes that new creation in the conversion of a sinner, He is turning a goat into a sheep.
psalms109:31 said:
Jesus can do more than you think just turn to Him, not men.
More than I think? Yes, in the sense that He can do so much that it is impossible for a mere human mind to encompass it. But I certainly do not believe in a powerless Jesus. He is the great Creator (John 1.3) and Sustainer (Colossians 1.17) of the universe. He had power to lay down His life, and to take it up again (John 10.18). He is the Victor over death and hell (1 Corinthians 15.54-57). He build His church in such a way that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (Matthew 16.18). He is the "Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" of Isaiah 9.6. And so I could go on. I think you must have misunderstood something I wrote if you imagine that I believe in a Jesus of "reduced power". He is almighty.
psalms109:31 said:
It takes faith, because we are not saved by grace alone, but grace through faith.
What is the source of our faith? Ourselves? Surely not! Poor, weak sinners at best, we need God Himself to grant us faith. Paul wrote to the Christians at Philippi:
For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake. (Philippians 1:29)
), the Hebrew word is translated as "chief ones", in Jeremiah 50.8 as "rams" (indeed the KJV translates the same word as "rams" in Genesis 31.10 and 10.12), and in Zechariah 10.3 as "goatherds". Even so, your quote from the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament includes: "Yahweh, the true shepherd, cares for his flock and punishes the attudim, as the false shepherds..."