CHRIST: Sinless or not?

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You're the one grasping. Not to mention you bore false witness against the church whose article was linked to earlier, by accusing them of trying to "justify" alcohol use, which they were clearly NOT trying to do.

Breaking one of the Ten Commandments is NOT "standing firm in Christ". Nor is perpetuating the lie that what Christ and the disciples were "really" drinking is "grape juice".

Can you not grasp the truth in the Scripture? Jesus did not drink anything at that table. The Word of God clearly says that.

And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover. Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve. And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me. And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I? And he answered and said, He that dippeth [his] hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me. The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said. And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed [it], and brake [it], and gave [it] to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Matthew 26:19-29)

Jesus gave the cup to His Apostles and told the to drink 'ALL OF IT.' He did not drink any. He went on to say 'I WILL NOT DRINK HENCEFORTH OF THIS FRUIT OF THE VINE...'

How in the world do you get Jesus drank alcohol out of the passage? You are reading into the Scripture that which is not there.

 

[npetreley]

Jesus never drank of the cup there at that table. He said He would not drink of it!

He said He would not drink of it FROM NOW ON until, etc. In other words, He drank of it with them at the last supper, but that was the last time until they drank it anew in the kingdom.

Even if you want to twist this passage into saying He did not drink of it then (which makes absolutely no sense), He wasn't saying that He would forever abstain because it was a bad thing to do. He would not drink of it henceforth (from now on) UNTIL a later time. He will drink of it (again) THEN. Read it again. until that day when I drink it

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

NO, the Word of God does not say He drank any of it. He blessed it and gave it to His Apostles and told them to drink all of it.

He did not drink any.

 

[Snitzelhoff]

Apparently you did not read my last post, did you? They were accused falsely. The accusers were saying, the wine you drink has made you drunk. It had not. It could not have made them drunk, because it was not alcoholic.

If I didn't read it, I couldn't have responded to it with Scripture that said otherwise. They supposed that the Apostles were drunk on new wine. They wouldn't have supposed that if it were not possible to become drunk on new wine.

Michael

 

[Linda64]

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Matthew 26:29)

In instituting the Lord’s Supper, Jesus used two terms to refer to the liquid representing His blood: “The fruit of the vine” and “the cup.” Can fermented grape juice legitimately be referred to as the “fruit of the vine?” Bible scholar Charles Wesley Ewing states:

Fermented wine is not a product of the vine. Chemically it is entirely different from the sweet and unfermented grape juice. Fermented wine is 14% alcohol, and it has other constituents that are not found in fresh grape juice. Alcohol does not grow on the vine. It is not a vine product. Alcohol is the product of decay, the product of fermentation. It is produced by the process of spoiling.

Notes from "The Bible and Beverage Alcohol", Part II: Pastor Marc Monte, August 14, 2005

 

[Conservative Christian]

**Personal attack deleted**

"I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

Christ very clearly states that he intends to drink WINE in HEAVEN with the apostles! If wine is acceptable to our Father in Heaven, drinking it in moderation CANNOT be a sin!

Many thanks to "His Blood Spoke My Name" for proving me correct on this issue!

"His Blood" CANNOT deny that Jesus was speaking of ALCOHOLIC WINE here, and that Christ Jesus CLEARLY STATES that he will be drinking WINE in Heaven with the apostles!

 

[Conservative Christian]

**Personal attack deleted**

"His Blood" states that Christ was definitely speaking about alcoholic wine in the passage in question, while Linda cites the opinion that it was NOT alcoholic wine. Both of them CANNOT be correct. So the only question now, is which one of them is wrong?
:tonofbricks:

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You did not respond with Scripture that said otherwise. If you did, it must have gotten deleted, I can't find it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

"His Blood Spoke My Name" continues to twist the words of Christ and the Bible, and is in obvious denial of plainly stated biblical facts.

"I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

Christ very clearly states that he intends to drink WINE in HEAVEN with the apostles! If wine is acceptable to our Father in Heaven, drinking it in moderation CANNOT be a sin!

Many thanks to "His Blood Spoke My Name" for proving me correct on this issue!

"His Blood" CANNOT deny that Jesus was speaking of ALCOHOLIC WINE here, and that Christ Jesus CLEARLY STATES that he will be drinking WINE in Heaven with the apostles!

NO, He intends to drink the 'fruit of the vine'. He does not say alcoholic drink. I wonder how many will be bound by alcohol and go to hell because of the many lies that are told decieving them to believe they can drink in moderation. The lies that are told that Christ drank alcohol on earth and will again drink alcohol in heaven.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Uh-oh! "His Blood" and "Linda64" are clearly contradicting each other here!

"His Blood" states that Christ was definitely speaking about alcoholic wine in the passage in question, while Linda cites the opinion that it was NOT alcoholic wine. Both of them CANNOT be correct. So the only question now, is which one of them is wrong?
:tonofbricks:

More lies? I never said that the wine at the Lord's Supper was alcoholic. And neither did Linda64.

 

[Conservative Christian]

The words of Christ Jesus himself in Matthew 26:29, where he clearly declares that he will be drinking ALCOHOLIC WINE IN HEAVEN with the apostles some day!:

"I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."---Christ Jesus

Christ Jesus and the Bible have spoken!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

How do you get alcoholic wine from Christ's Words 'fruit of the vine?'

You do very well at tripping over your own tongue with the lies about the Lord.

 

[Linda64]

Uh-oh! "His Blood" and "Linda64" are clearly contradicting each other here!

"His Blood" states that Christ was definitely speaking about alcoholic wine in the passage in question, while Linda cites the opinion that it was NOT alcoholic wine. Both of them CANNOT be correct. So the only question now, is which one of them is wrong?
:tonofbricks:

You need your eyes checked---HBSMN and I agree. HBSMN never states that the "fruit of the vine" was alcoholic--NEVER. Quit twisting His Blood's words--you seem to be very good at that.

 

[Allan]

The words of Christ Jesus himself in Matthew 26:29, where he clearly declares that he will be drinking ALCOHOLIC WINE IN HEAVEN with the apostles some day!:

"I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."---Christ Jesus

Christ Jesus and the Bible have spoken!

I'm not getting into this mess yet I couldn't help but comment on the above.

When Christ drinks "it new with you" (The Apostles) it will not be what you are assuming it will be (alcohalic).

In that time (the Kingdom), there will be no death and therefore there will be no rot, or decaying. This is absolutely necessary (the breaking down) in order for Juice to naturally ferment. And it is the reason Jesus call that which they will drink "fruit of the vine". I personally don't agree with HBSMN or Linda in that we are not to partake of alcohal in any form or fashion (most specifically medically) alcohal. But I DO say there is no relevent use for it in the life of a believer as entertainment, relaxant, or joy booster.

I just wanted to point out that little mistake in your quote because you actually make THEIR case more so than you make yours with THAT verse.

Jesus and the Word have spoken but use them wisely. :thumbs:

I just thought I would bring this to your attention.

 

[John R]

Amen

:applause::thumbs:

I vote for "Christ is sinless."

If He had sinned, He could not have been the perfect sacrifice, and we would all still be dead in our sins.

Enough said!

 

[dan e.]

Aaahhh! Good morning my brother in Christ, His Blood Spoke My Name!

I see you guys were up late last night. You didn't by any chance have a drink to help you stay awake...did you?? Just joking. So, are things going well? When are you going to take me up on my offer? Do you ever pass through Nashville?

Have an awesome day HBSMN. I imagine we'll be talking some today! I look forward to it!

 

[dan e.]

By the way, I definitely have confidence that Jesus was sinless. It would be ludacris to think otherwise. No way Jesus did any wrong!

 

[SBCPreacher]

Conservative Christian,

Nice avatar! I really like it!

 

[av1611jim]

Close it down!!!

Moderators help!

This thread got hijacked long ago. It was never meant to be a wino vs teetotaler debate. It's intent was to garner folks' thoughts about the sinless character of Christ and what they thought that actually looked liked in the practical daily outworking of their view.

I think that was answered somewhere around page five. Since that time this has been yet ANOTHER wino/wineless merry-go-round.

Since I am the OP; please close this thread post haste.

Thank you.

 

[Dale-c]

This thread got hijacked long ago. It was never meant to be a wino vs teetotaler debate. It's intent was to garner folks' thoughts about the sinless character of Christ and what they thought that actually looked liked in the practical daily outworking of their view.

Quite the contrary, it would meant to label anyone that believe that Jesus drank real wine as people saying that Jesus sinned.
At least that was my impression.

But at any rate....it isn't going anywhere good