Ran the Man
Active Member
By the way, Bob Marley was converted and baptised shortly before his death.
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Christ tasted death for EVERY man Hebrews 2:9
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Ran the Man
Active Member
No, I've never used weed or any illicit drug in my life. And yourself? Been hitting the beer? Is that why you believe Calvinism?Do you brethren know what a Doobie is?... I'm just asking!... The Gospel according to Doobie?... Next it will be The Gospel according to Marley... Is somebody posting while on the El Weedo?... Brother Glen
Ran the Man
Active Member
It's every man in the KJV.sure...by the way...it is everyone...not everyman, but I do not want to confuse you with the facts. You can ignore the verses to your own peril .
Ran the Man
Active Member
And everyone is everyone.
prophecy70
Active Member
Well thats not true because If you take The Beatles song I am the Walrus,
"I am the egg man
They are the egg men
I am the walrus."
Everybody is clearly not everybody.
I can do this too
prophecy70
Active Member
Lol...I called it....read from 9-16....who does the passage say is the everyone
Vs 10...many sons unto glory...[not every single person]
Vs10...the captain of their salvation
Vs11....they who are sancfified....[not every single person]
Vs11...He is not ashamed to call them brethren [the elect]..how do we know it is the elect in view? The passage continues. .
Vs12....my brethren...
Vs 12.. in the midst of the church
13...I and the children which God has given me...
Vs14...the children
Vs16...He took on Him ...THE SEED OF ABRAHAM.....[the elect]...not the seed of adam...[All fallen who remain in adam].
Let me know if you see how we get it now
Icon is correct.
Why isn't every man saved Ran?
God then continues to take about these same people He calls “every man” by referring to them in the context as “in bringing MANY SONS unto to glory”
“For both he that sanctifieth and THEY WHO ARE SANCTIFIED are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed TO CALL THEM BRETHREN, Saying, I will declare thy name unto MY BRETHREN, in the midst of the church will I sing unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold, I and THE CHILDREN WHICH GOD HATH GIVEN ME....He took on him THE SEED OF ABRAHAM. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto HIS BRETHREN, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.” Hebrews 2:11-17.
Sorry Ran The Man, you tell us not to pick and choose in Romans and here you are doing it in Hebrews.
Ran the Man
Active Member
Ha ha.Well thats not true because If you take The Beatles song I am the Walrus,
"I am the egg man
They are the egg men
I am the walrus."
Everybody is clearly not everybody.
I can do this too
Ran the Man
Active Member
Still talking about the Church, not individuals.
Mary-gee-wannaNo SG never heard of that one?... Brother Glen
Yeah I have a cousin named MaryJane and the name was okay when she was born 70 years ago not so much now... We just call her Mary... Brother Glen
You hill folk are noted for giving your children two names... But we can all recall our mother calling us by our first name... But when she's used your whole name... Well as I heard one person put it... You're in a heap of trouble son!... Brother Glen
... Brother Glen
Ran the Man
Active Member
I've never used marijuana, but it obviously fits in with Proverbs talking about giving wine to a dying person to let him forget his pain.
Look, we use morphine, which is a derivative of opium. God put these things here for medical use. We should control them, but not forbid them.
Look, we use morphine, which is a derivative of opium. God put these things here for medical use. We should control them, but not forbid them.
Ran the Man
Active Member
Coca leaf stops nausea and headaches. It is still part of Coca Cola, but with the cocaine extracted.
My mother never used my middle name.... she disliked it!You hill folk are noted for giving your children two names... But we can all recall our mother calling us by our first name... But when she's used your whole name... Well as I heard one person put it... You're in a heap of trouble son!
prophecy70
Active Member
If you stick to this sort of information, you actually make sense. Im proud of you.
Ive have used it though when I was younger in my rebellious teen years, I don't see medically what marijuana does besides make you eat more, or the other strand that just makes you sleep.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, perhaps not.
But just because someone is afraid of dying and going to Hell and goes through the motions of making themselves ready to meet their Maker, doesn't make them saved.
From my understanding of Catholicism, the RCC practices something I think they call, " Last Rites", which supposedly confers a special blessing on the dying that helps to expiate any remaining sins and prepare them to enter eternity in a "state of grace"....all by the power of man's will.
I only know of one documented case where a person confessed Christ at the eleventh hour and it was genuine...the thief on the cross.
...and we "Calvinists" know why he did it.
Now, to my way of thinking, there may have been others in history ( to the glory of God's grace ) that the Lord has called this way, but as I see it, most of them are suspect as being, "so you're dying...quick, repeat this prayer after me and you'll go to Heaven when you die.".
In other words, last minute attempts to perform an action or set of actions which would then obligate God to save someone.
Salvation doesn't work like that.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
To me, a general atonement is very easy to get if one capitalizes on roughly 7 verses ( sound-bites of things God has to say on a matter ) to the exclusion of other things that He says in His word.
Let's see the passage is question:
" But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. " ( Hebrews 2:9 ).
I remember adding this to my list of "General Atonement" verses in a two-column comparison chart I did on this subject some 12 years ago...and while it appeared to support it, it didn't support it as much as as 1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2 seemed to. As the years went on and the more I read, the more context of the passage came into view for me.
I always used to hear this used in sermons in churches, and they would always stop at verse 9:
" Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let [them] slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];
4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6 but one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." ( Hebrews 2:1-9 )
If one stops here or simply quotes Hebrews 2:9 all by itself, it's real easy to assume that "every man" means each and every person that has ever been born.
Side note:
Who are the "we" in certain places?
Believers or unbelievers?
" Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;" ( Hebrews 3:1 )
So, there's who the writer of this letter ( some say God used Paul, some say He used Luke...to me, it doesn't really matter it's still inspired Scripture ) is addressing...those who have been made holy in the sight of God by Christ's blood and are partakers of the Heavenly calling.
Other areas make it plain, at least to me, that the Lord is addressing those who historically know of the details of the Old Testament....which Gentiles are, as a rule, not "up to speed" on since our history does not include them.
"Hebrews".
Without this being one of my usual long-winded dissertations, the context of "every man" in verse 9 gets developed, as Iconoclast has stated, in the verses following ( Hebrews 2:10-18 ):
1) "Many sons" in verse 10
2) "They who are sanctified" in verse 11.
3) "My brethren" in verse 12.
4) "The children which God hath given me" ( please see Isaiah 8:18, John 6:37, John 6:39, John 6:65, John 17:2, John 17:6, John 17:9-10, John 17:12, John 17:24 )
5) "The children" in verse 14
6) "Them who through fear of death" in verse 15.
7) " seed of Abraham" in verse 16
8) " brethren" in verse 17.
9) " "them that are tempted" in verse 18.
From my perspective, anyone who tries to use Hebrews 2:9 in an attempt to prove "universal atonement" is doing damage to the context....because one cannot divorce the "every man" from the rest of it without serious ramifications.
For example, if "every man" in Hebrews 2:9 means each and every man, woman and child who ever lived, then each and every man, woman and child who ever lived are partakers of all the rest.
"Every man" becomes a son, sanctified, the writer's brother, Christ's brother, the children which God gave to Christ, the spiritual seed of Abraham and so forth.
Universal salvation.
May God bless you.
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To me, a general atonement is very easy to get if one capitalizes on roughly 7 verses ( sound-bites of things God has to say on a matter ) to the exclusion of other things that He says in His word.
Let's see the passage is question:
" But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. " ( Hebrews 2:9 ).
I remember not very long ago adding this to my list of "General Atonement" verses in a two-column comparison chart I did on this subject some 12 years ago...and while it appeared to support it, it didn't support it as much as as 1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2 seemed to. As the years went on and the more I read, the more context of the passage came into view for me.
I always used to hear this used in sermons in churches, and they would always stop at verse 9:
" Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let [them] slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];
4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6 but one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." ( Hebrews 2:1-9 )
If one stops here or simply quotes Hebrews 2:9 all by itself, it's real easy to assume that "every man" means each and every person that has ever been born.
Side note:
Who are the "we" in certain places?
Believers or unbelievers?
" Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;" ( Hebrews 3:1 )
So, there's who the writer of this letter ( some say God used Paul, some say He used Luke...to me, it doesn't really matter it's still inspired Scripture ) is addressing...those who have been made holy in the sight of God by Christ's blood and are partakers of the Heavenly calling.
Other areas make it plain, at least to me, that the Lord is addressing those who know of the details of the Old Testament....which Gentiles are, as a rule, not "up to speed" on since our history does not include them.
Without this being one of my usual long-winded dissertations, the context of "every man" in verse 9 gets developed, as Iconoclast has stated, in the verses following ( Hebrews 2:10-18 ):
1) "Many sons" in verse 10
2) "They who are sanctified" in verse 11.
3) "My brethren" in verse 12.
4) "The children which God hath given me" ( please see Isaiah 8:18, John 6:37, John 6:39, John 6:65, John 17:2, John 17:6, John 17:9-10, John 17:12, John 17:24 )
5) "The children" in verse 14
6) "Them who through fear of death" in verse 15.
7) " seed of Abraham" in verse 16
8) " brethren" in verse 17.
9) " "them that are tempted" in verse 18.
From my perspective, anyone who tries to use Hebrews 2:9 in an attempt to prove "universal atonement" is doing damage to the context....because one cannot divorce the "every man" from the rest of it without serious ramifications.
For example, if "every man" in Hebrews 2:9 means each and every man, woman and child who ever lived, then each and every man, woman and child who ever lived are partakers of all the rest.
"Every man" becomes a son, sanctified, the writer's brother, Christ's brother, the children which God gave to Christ, the spiritual seed of Abraham and so forth.
Universal salvation.
May God bless you.
And if it is every man as some declare then isn't God contradicting himself in scripture?... Take a trip to the Potters House where the word of God says it isn't so... Salvation is a surety... Not a choice!... Brother Glen
Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
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